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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 9:18:31 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elyon2010
2. An "I dont know" response does not mean "yes they will." He never said "yes they will go to Heaven." Dont put words in his mouth, and blame him for something he never said. This comes down to logic.
He said "I don't know" 87 times in that interview. Is that someone that should be pastoring 30,000 people?
He says that Jesus went to hell, fought with the devil, and became the first "born again" man. Is that someone that should be pastoring 30,000 people?
Joel Osteen wouldn't know God, Jesus, or the Bible if they fell on him!
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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 11:09:37 AM
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sgqtlead
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quote:
God works within His written Word. He will not contradict or violate it.
The prosperity message completely outside the lines of His written Word.
Joel says he "doesn't know" if Muslims are saved or not. God's Word is explicitly written against false religions.
Amen, brotha! I call Osteen "Dr. Feel Good". The preaching style he has makes everybody (with itching ears) feel good about whatever is going on in their life - including sin. This is why he has about the largest church in the country. People don't want to hear that unforgiven sin in their life will separate them from God. I want preaching that encourages me and makes me want to come back for mre, but I also want my "toes to be stepped on" from time to time and to be reminded of Hell fire and brimstone every now and then, too.
Everytime I have seen Osteen on a secular platform (Larry King, for example) where he has the greatest opportunity of his career to reach un-saved and un-churched people, I've been bitterly disappointed by his responses. He tends to straddle the fence and take a politically correct position, and people on God's side cannot straddle the fence. They will be spewed out like lukewarm water, according to God's word.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 12:06:28 PM
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gralan
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When I heard him teaching folks in Africa not to put the ashes of their cremated dead in urns because it trapped their souls here on earth, I knew I had guessed right about his character.
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The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 12:36:47 PM
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Bright-Star
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I dont think I am going to post in this thread anymore. This will be my last post in here. This thread has wings and it is false. Its not even based on facts anymore. Perhaps is started out right, but its all wrong now.
This thread is somewhat of a joke. Everyone has come together to bully on Joel and no one really has a good reason. When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say. Its like a popular opinion here and everyone sticks together so it makes them feel good because the majority of people believe something. Instead of looking to the Word to see if Joel is wrong, a lot of people are sort of getting on the band-wagon and calling him bad. I a shocked at this kind of behavior. To each his own. Dont be suprised if Joel is in Heaven with YOU and Jesus in the end. I know a lot of people here will not like that...
Its like some people feel better about themselves that they can find fault with Joel. Well remember God will find fault with you too oneday. We justify it by saying that "oh we are testing the spirits etc" Yeah thats a good answer to provide 94 pages of negatively toward a man that is doing God's will to the best of his ability.
I CLEARLY found one example of a person who misquoted Joel and put words in his mouth then condemned him for doing something he NEVER did. I wonder how many more I could find in this thread if I actually cared. I dont care that much, because I have my own life to live and my own call to fullfill so I will focus on that. Just think about it folks, before you fall into error yourself (which a lot of people on this thread have already). Consider my pressence in this thread here as a sign and a wake-up call to you all. Clearly some of you are wrong in what you quoted Joel saying, if you cant even clearly quote what Joel said (which is easily accessible through transciprts) think how much more error you are making in figuring out his true heart intentions, (which are not easily seen by anyone except God).
Let us all not play little 'gods' and try to act like we know Joel when we really dont. Its this kind of behavior that makes me embarassed to be a Christian sometimes. I love Christ, but I am very disappointed in the Christian behavior I have witnessed. Guess what folks? The world sees that too, and thats why they dont want to be Christians.
I know that this will make everyone think for a few seconds, then instead of changing, they will all gather together and stick together to find fault with Joel again and nothing will change in the end..because after all "we are testing the spirt." Otherwise known as being as negative as one can be toward Joel, finding fault, saying he is not going to heaven and that he doesnt know God all so that we can make ourselves feel better for the little that we do for the Kingdom of God.
Carry on, carry on.....
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 2:00:18 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elyon2010
I dont think I am going to post in this thread anymore. This will be my last post in here. This thread has wings and it is false. Its not even based on facts anymore. Perhaps is started out right, but its all wrong now.
Elyon2010: I am sorry that you feel that way. However, I, as would others here, would be very interested if you could please identify examples where Mr Osteen was misquoted.
quote:
This thread is somewhat of a joke. Everyone has come together to bully on Joel and no one really has a good reason. When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say. Its like a popular opinion here and everyone sticks together so it makes them feel good because the majority of people believe something.
Actually, there is a very good reason. We are commanded, like the Bereans, to test ALL teaching against Scripture, and if it does not line up, it is to be exposed.
By the way, there are more than enough examples where Mr Osteen's teaching does NOT line up with Scripture.
There are a number of posts in this thread that contain documented proof of Mr Osteen's questionable doctrine. In addition, we have video evidence of his interviews with Larry King.
quote:
Instead of looking to the Word to see if Joel is wrong, a lot of people are sort of getting on the band-wagon and calling him bad. I a shocked at this kind of behavior. To each his own.
I can't speak for others here, but I always consult the Word to test Mr Osteen's teaching
quote:
Dont be suprised if Joel is in Heaven with YOU and Jesus in the end. I know a lot of people here will not like that...
I pray every day that false teachers like Osteen repent of their teaching. I would love to meet him in Heaven!
quote:
Its like some people feel better about themselves that they can find fault with Joel. Well remember God will find fault with you too oneday. We justify it by saying that "oh we are testing the spirits etc" Yeah thats a good answer to provide 94 pages of negatively toward a man that is doing God's will to the best of his ability.
Again, no one is finding fault with Mr Osteen. All we are doing is defending the purity of the Word against his perversion of it.
quote:
I CLEARLY found one example of a person who misquoted Joel and put words in his mouth then condemned him for doing something he NEVER did. I wonder how many more I could find in this thread if I actually cared. I dont care that much, because I have my own life to live and my own call to fullfill so I will focus on that.
This forum is for brothers and sister in the Lord to discuss things. If someone misquoted Mr Osteen, then you need to bring it to their attention.
quote:
Just think about it folks, before you fall into error yourself (which a lot of people on this thread have already). Consider my pressence in this thread here as a sign and a wake-up call to you all. Clearly some of you are wrong in what you quoted Joel saying, if you cant even clearly quote what Joel said (which is easily accessible through transciprts) think how much more error you are making in figuring out his true heart intentions, (which are not easily seen by anyone except God).
An example is my post of Mr Osteen's teaching that Jesus had to go to hell, fight the devil and become the first "born again" man. That is out there for anyone to see. The date and title of his message is even referenced.
quote:
Let us all not play little 'gods' and try to act like we know Joel when we really dont.
You're right, I have never met Mr Osteen, however I have listened to and read enough of his teaching to know that his theology (weak as it is) does not line up w/Scripture
quote:
Its this kind of behavior that makes me embarassed to be a Christian sometimes. I love Christ, but I am very disappointed in the Christian behavior I have witnessed. Guess what folks? The world sees that too, and thats why they dont want to be Christians.
I know that this will make everyone think for a few seconds, then instead of changing, they will all gather together and stick together to find fault with Joel again and nothing will change in the end..because after all "we are testing the spirt." Otherwise known as being as negative as one can be toward Joel, finding fault, saying he is not going to heaven and that he doesnt know God all so that we can make ourselves feel better for the little that we do for the Kingdom of God.
Carry on, carry on.....
I, as well as others will continue to defend the Word of Almighty God from false teachers like Joel Osteen. We have seen a number of spiritual eyes opened to these false teachers on this thread...PRAISE GOD!
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 2:27:44 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 1090
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elyon2010
When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say.
There are over 90 pages of proof. You are asking us to dig through all our sources and compile the same stuff that we already did prior. Feel free to thumb through all the pages.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 2:55:53 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
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From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elyon2010
When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say.
There are over 90 pages of proof. You are asking us to dig through all our sources and compile the same stuff that we already did prior. Feel free to thumb through all the pages.
Not thrilled about doing this again, but here is a synopsis of Mr Osteen's questionable theology:
The first 6 examples are textbook Word Faith theology, claiming that what you speak you can have. Nowhere in the New Testament is the church taught this. The teaching that we are the “head and not the tail” is also misapplied by word faith teachers who do not keep the context of when it was said and to whom:
1. From Joel Osteen, “Experiencing More Of God's Favor,” Tape # 212, Daystar, July 10, 2004
“Many of you today know this, you believe it down here in your heart. But the reason that your not experiencing as much as you should is because your not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out. Your words have creative power. When you go around saying, 'I have favor, people want to be good to me and supernatural doors are opening.' When you make those declarations of faith, you are charging the atmosphere. And your own words can help to bring it to pass. That is why we should get into the habit of every day consistently speaking God's favor over our lives” FALSE
2. Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004
Here’s how he explains it “You can cancel out God's plan by speaking negative words. God works by laws” FALSE
3. Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004
“Your circumstances will line up with your words.” “Words are like seeds, they have creative power.” “The more you talk about it the more you call it in.” “Your words will give life to what you are saying.” “You can change your world by simply changing your words.” “You can use your words to bless your life or curse your life” FALSE
4. Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004
“Start calling in victory. Start calling in divine health. Start calling in abundance. You can prophesize your future.” “If you wanna know where you'll be five years from now listen to what you are saying.” “Our words will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.” “With our words we can predict our future. We can prophesize our future” FALSE
5. Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004
“You may have sickness in your body, you need to call in health. You may be in debt, you need to boldly say that you are the head and not the tail.” FALSE
6. Joel Osteen, Sermon, VL-007, April 30, 2000, Sermon on Website, May 2004
“Fear is a force just like faith is a force. If you give into fear and start to dwell on that junk and start to act on it, that fear can actually bring things to pass just like faith can bring things to pass. Job said, 'the thing I greatly feared came upon me.' Fear is a force just like faith is a force. If you give into fear and start to dwell on that junk and start to act on it, that fear can actually bring things to pass just like faith can bring things to pass. Job said, 'the thing I greatly feared came upon me.” FALSE
What Jesus is being Preached?
The most horrendous and most dangerous is the teaching of Jesus being taken captive in Hell by Satan. Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer all hold to this heresy. And so does Joel Osteen:
7. Joel Osteen, Sermon, CS-002 - April 23, 2000, Sermon Is Posted At His Website, May 2004
“And the third thing, because of all of what Jesus accomplished in the Resurrection; you and I have power and authority over the devil and demon forces. I can imagine when Jesus bowed His head and died on that cross, that Satan and all those demons they gathered in Hell for a great victory celebration. I can imagine it looked something like the victory party in the locker room after the Super Bowl. You can see them giving high five's and jumping around. Shouting with great excitement, We did it! We did it! I told you we could defeat Him! Now we're in control. Now we can do whatever we want. And can't you hear Satan laugh sarcastically and say to his demons, Aren't you glad you followed me now? Aren't you glad you revolted out of the heavens? I told you it'd be worth it.
“Can't you see Jesus looking right into Satan's eyes and saying, “Satan, I hate to spoil your victory party, but I think you're celebrating a little bit too soon”? You may have knocked me down, but you sure didn't knock me out. And it's not over until I say it's over. Satan says, Listen, Jesus, you're on my turf now. You don't have a chance down here. You're surrounded by my demons. We're going to tear you apart. And Jesus just smiles and says, “Go ahead, Satan, make my day!” (Congregation applauds) Jesus says, “Look, Satan, I'm down here to take care of business. I'm ready to do battle. I don't want to be here any longer than I have to be because it stinks down here.”
“The Bible indicates that for three days, Jesus went into the very depths of hell. Right into the enemy's own territory. And He did battle with Satan face to face. Can you imagine what a show down that was? It was good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Holiness vs. filth. Here are the two most powerful forces in the universe have come together to do battle for the first time in history. But thank God. The Bible says, “Satan was no match for our Champion”. This was no contest. (Congregation applauds).
“Jesus crushed Satan's head with His foot. He bruised his head. And He once and for all, forever defeated and dethroned and demoralized our enemy. One translation says, “He paralyzed him and rendered him powerless”. But thank God. He didn't even stop there. He went over and ripped the keys of death and hell out of Satan's hands. And He grabbed Satan by the nap of his neck and He began to slowly drag him down through the corridors of Hell. All beat up and bruised because He wanted to make sure that every single demon saw very clearly that Jesus was indeed the undisputed Champion of all time! Amen?”
FALSE...bordering on HERESY!
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Imagine is right, because this is not what happened. How can we know? The Bible tells us so. For this heresy we need to take the time to explain the biblical position so no one is left thinking that what Osteen has done does not affect the gospel, this same gospel that Satan hates and wants to corrupt. Osteen does not come out and say what others do- that Jesus became sin on the cross but the implication is evident by his going to hell under Satan’s jurisdiction. Hebrews 9:14 tells us that he offered himself “without blemish to God” Paul wrote of Christ’s “offering and sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma” (Ephesians 5:2). Sin is not a beautiful aroma to God.
Jesus went into Hades, where the faithful were, not hell, where the wicked are punished. The word of faith teachers do not believe in his victory on the cross but that it was not completed on the cross but in a battle in hell with the devil. This imaginative battle actually brings destruction to the gospel where Jesus REALLY conquered Satan crushed Satan's head on the cross not in hell. Colossians 2:15: “Having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it.” This victory happened on the cross (v.14), so what is Christ doing suffering in Hell by these same principalities and powers, as claimed. This doctrine is dangerous and affects many others. If Jesus went to hell, then Jesus did not speak the truth buy saying IT IS FINISHED. The death of Christ on the cross is then insufficient, not having the power by itself to save anyone and Paul could not have said what he said about it that he preached Christ crucified for salvation..
Neither does Scripture say “Jesus took the keys of hell and death from Satan.” This again is a false word faith teaching. Neither did Satan steal the keys from Adam as the word faith teachers espouse, because Adam did not have them.
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 3:00:25 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 1090
Joined: 5/16/2005
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Since I am such a nice guy, I did dig a Joel quote:
quote:
"Friends, you got to charge the atmosphere with your words...You and I can call in good things. Start calling in victory! Start calling in divine health! Start calling in abundant life! If you do that you will begin to see it come to pass. You can prophesy your future."
(Joel Osteen, "Speaking Faith Filled Words," Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
Is there ANY truth in this? You can prophesy your future just because you speak it? It's hogwash.
NEXT!
quote:
“Listen; don’t dangle people over the fires of hell. Lisa and I always kid about you know we’re going to dangle them over the fires of hell. Listen, that doesn’t draw people to God. They know what kind of life they live. They know how bad they’ve lived. What you’ve got to do is talk about the goodness of God. Listen, it’s the goodness of God that brings people to repentance. It’s the goodness of God. One thing I always appreciated about my dad is that he instilled into us a good vision of who God was. We learned about a good God.” [Sermon: What the Resurrection Means to Us As Believers]
Interesting quote that comes from a message about what the Resurrection means . . . But here's the thing: God is good, and in His goodness, He sends people to hell. Not because they "lived bad." Because they ARE bad. Yeshua's death wasn't because He was just "nice." It's because we are filthy sinners with no hope other than a saving God, and the only way to keep out of the flames of hell is through God.
Like someone once said, "How can you be saved without knowing what you are being saved from?"
NEXT!
quote:
Osteen also writes: “We minister the Word of God. The proclamation of the Gospel comes after individuals have opened their hearts to God and turned from themselves to others. Only then are they truly ready to hear and benefit fully from the Word of the Lord.”
Say WHAT?!
1. The Gospel message is what is suppose to turn us to God in the first place! The message of the cross and the sacrifice of our Savior. If sin and repentance is not the centerpiece of his message, then how can people open their hearts to God and "turn themselves" around? I mean, "turning around" is what REPENTANCE means!
2. Notice that Joel says, "turn from themselves to others? I hope for his sake that he made a typo, and meant to say, turning to God.
NEXT!
quote:
‘Make church relevant.’ ‘Give them something to be able to take away. I find today people are not looking for theology. There’s a place for it, [But] in your everyday life you need to know how to live” (Charisma, June 2004, pp. 44-45).
So, just give people what they want? Oh, I think the Bible has something to say about that!
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
It doesn't matter if it is what people want, theology is ESSENTIAL.
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers
Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
Sorry, Joel. Wrong again.
NEXT!
quote:
On Osteen's Web site it says -The Power of Words-“Your words affect your future. Speaking God's Word over your life can help you to live the life of victory that God has in store for you.”
Uh huh.... Bologna.
NEXT! Right along the same lines:
quote:
In another sermon Osteen said “the Bible says that we can grow in favor,” said Osteen in his sermon “Increasing in Favor” “I believe one of the main ways that we grow in favor is by declaring it. It’s not enough to just read it it’s not enough to just believe it. You’ve got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. And one of the primary ways we release our faith is through our words. And there is a divine connection between you declaring God’s favor and you seeing God’s favor manifest in your life…You’ve got to give life to your faith by speaking it out.”
quote:
Osteen writes in his book that the Israelites’ “lack of faith and their lack of self-esteem robbed them of the fruitful future God had in store for them.”
quote:
“There’s power in what you visualize,” Osteen said in Nov.16,2004 sermon “take a few moments each day to visualize things you want in your life so God can bring them to pass He then tells a story about a coach and his team “Close your eyes and envision winning the game”, “they produced exactly what they saw.”
Are you getting the picture? "Visualizing" so that things come to pass? That sounds . . . occultic.
Nothing he says here is in line with the Bible . . . at all. In fact, it is completely contrary.
Another example:
quote:
“As long as you can’t imagine it, as long as you can’t see it, then it is not going to happen for you. The man correctly realized that his own thoughts and attitudes were condemning him to mediocrity. He determined then and there to start believing better of himself, and believing better of God.
“It’s the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It’s not God’s lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. ”
You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.” (from, Your Best Life Now, CHAPTER 1, “Enlarging Your Vision”)
Again, this is an occult practice.
quote:
“Many of you today know this, you believe it down here in your heart. But the reason that you're not experiencing as much as you should is because you're not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out. Your words have creative power. When you go around saying, 'I have favor, people want to be good to me and supernatural doors are opening.' When you make those declarations of faith, you are charging the atmosphere. And your own words can help to bring it to pass. That is why we should get into the habit of every day consistently speaking God's favor over our lives” (Joel Osteen, “Experiencing More Of God's Favor,” Tape # 212, Daystar, July 10, 2004)
Here’s how he explains it “You can cancel out God's plan by speaking negative words. God works by laws” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
This is new-age mumbo-jumbo, completely absent from Scripture.
I can cancel out God's plan with negative words? My words are more powerful than God's Will? BLASPHEMY.
Again:
quote:
“Start calling in victory. Start calling in divine health. Start calling in abundance. You can prophesize your future.” “If you wanna know where you'll be five years from now listen to what you are saying.” “Our words will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.” “With our words we can predict our future. We can prophesize our future” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
Well, this is just getting fun:
quote:
“Why did God take away the voice of Zacharias (Luke 1:11-20)? Because God knew his [Zacharias] negative words would cancel out His [God] plan.” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
Zacharias was judged for his disbelief in the message. This is more hogwash.
quote:
“You may have sickness in your body, you need to call in health. You may be in debt, you need to boldly say that you are the head and not the tail” (Joel Osteen, “Speaking Faith Filled Words,” Tape # 223. Daystar Television, May 2, 2004)
Nowhere in Scripture is this taught. However, the idea of "head and not the tail" IS in Scripture. It is in Deuteronomy 28.
quote:
12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you
Do you see how Joel cherry picks and twists Scripture? The Bible says, "obey God." Joel says, "Say positive things." He is clearly not talking about the God that I worship.
Okay, that's enough for the first post.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 3:01:35 PM
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rawr.ben
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Sox, looks like we posted at the same time.
I was going to make a separate post to talk about Joel's false message about Jesus going to hell and having some epic battle against Satan, but you already got it covered.
ETA: Upon further review, I think we used all the same quotes as well. Haha.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/26/2010 3:16:43 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
Sox, looks like we posted at the same time.
I was going to make a separate post to talk about Joel's false message about Jesus going to hell and having some epic battle against Satan, but you already got it covered.
ETA: Upon further review, I think we used all the same quotes as well. Haha.
Better that way. That way neither one of us can be accused of misquoting 'ole Joel
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 5/26/2010 3:24:23 PM >
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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/27/2010 12:52:06 AM
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sgqtlead
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elyon2010
I dont think I am going to post in this thread anymore. This will be my last post in here. This thread has wings and it is false. Its not even based on facts anymore. Perhaps is started out right, but its all wrong now.
Elyon2010: I am sorry that you feel that way. However, I, as would others here, would be very interested if you could please identify examples where Mr Osteen was misquoted.
quote:
This thread is somewhat of a joke. Everyone has come together to bully on Joel and no one really has a good reason. When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say. Its like a popular opinion here and everyone sticks together so it makes them feel good because the majority of people believe something.
Actually, there is a very good reason. We are commanded, like the Bereans, to test ALL teaching against Scripture, and if it does not line up, it is to be exposed.
By the way, there are more than enough examples where Mr Osteen's teaching does NOT line up with Scripture.
There are a number of posts in this thread that contain documented proof of Mr Osteen's questionable doctrine. In addition, we have video evidence of his interviews with Larry King.
quote:
Instead of looking to the Word to see if Joel is wrong, a lot of people are sort of getting on the band-wagon and calling him bad. I a shocked at this kind of behavior. To each his own.
I can't speak for others here, but I always consult the Word to test Mr Osteen's teaching
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Dont be suprised if Joel is in Heaven with YOU and Jesus in the end. I know a lot of people here will not like that...
I pray every day that false teachers like Osteen repent of their teaching. I would love to meet him in Heaven!
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Its like some people feel better about themselves that they can find fault with Joel. Well remember God will find fault with you too oneday. We justify it by saying that "oh we are testing the spirits etc" Yeah thats a good answer to provide 94 pages of negatively toward a man that is doing God's will to the best of his ability.
Again, no one is finding fault with Mr Osteen. All we are doing is defending the purity of the Word against his perversion of it.
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I CLEARLY found one example of a person who misquoted Joel and put words in his mouth then condemned him for doing something he NEVER did. I wonder how many more I could find in this thread if I actually cared. I dont care that much, because I have my own life to live and my own call to fullfill so I will focus on that.
This forum is for brothers and sister in the Lord to discuss things. If someone misquoted Mr Osteen, then you need to bring it to their attention.
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Just think about it folks, before you fall into error yourself (which a lot of people on this thread have already). Consider my pressence in this thread here as a sign and a wake-up call to you all. Clearly some of you are wrong in what you quoted Joel saying, if you cant even clearly quote what Joel said (which is easily accessible through transciprts) think how much more error you are making in figuring out his true heart intentions, (which are not easily seen by anyone except God).
An example is my post of Mr Osteen's teaching that Jesus had to go to hell, fight the devil and become the first "born again" man. That is out there for anyone to see. The date and title of his message is even referenced.
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Let us all not play little 'gods' and try to act like we know Joel when we really dont.
You're right, I have never met Mr Osteen, however I have listened to and read enough of his teaching to know that his theology (weak as it is) does not line up w/Scripture
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Its this kind of behavior that makes me embarassed to be a Christian sometimes. I love Christ, but I am very disappointed in the Christian behavior I have witnessed. Guess what folks? The world sees that too, and thats why they dont want to be Christians.
I know that this will make everyone think for a few seconds, then instead of changing, they will all gather together and stick together to find fault with Joel again and nothing will change in the end..because after all "we are testing the spirt." Otherwise known as being as negative as one can be toward Joel, finding fault, saying he is not going to heaven and that he doesnt know God all so that we can make ourselves feel better for the little that we do for the Kingdom of God.
Carry on, carry on.....
I, as well as others will continue to defend the Word of Almighty God from false teachers like Joel Osteen. We have seen a number of spiritual eyes opened to these false teachers on this thread...PRAISE GOD!
I was going to defend myself, but Soxfan, you nailed it better than I could have. I agree with every word you said. I would only add (less eloquently than you would) that there also seems to be a degree of "preacher religion" to Elyon2010's post. I would recommend that Elyon remove your Osteen blinders; then, maybe you too would no longer be charmed by his squinting eyes and smile and will be able to get down to the meat and potatoes of what is actually coming out of his mouth. I don't judge the man's heart and I sure hope I see him in Heaven. I think it's a little premature and immature of you to assume that true Christians debating here rebuking false teachings of his would feel that way. I know in my heart that it isn't God's will for Bin Laden to go to Hell. God said that it was His will that none should perish, and Hell was never intended for man, but for Satan and his angels. Man condemns himself to an eternity there by rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The Word also tells me that I will know a tree by the fruit it bears. I know there is a lot of good to be taken from much of what Osteen says, writes, etc., but simply put - a man in his position should know better than to make the many gaffes that he has made. That in itself leads me to believe that they are not gaffes, but instead intentional watering down and sugar-coating of scripture and in some cases just totally false teaching against God's word. If Christians don't make a stand against that sort of preaching, then we aren't doing the gospel of Jesus Christ any justice ourselves.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/27/2010 8:33:47 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 2007
Joined: 6/16/2008
From: Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
He said that the way God made him is to be positive...we cant blame him for that. Thats how God made him.
OK...so God is to blame for his bad theology?
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His father has nothing to do with it. Joel is Joel and John was John. Joel is not responsible for his fathers actions. Joel is responsible for Joel.
I was pointing out the foundation he built his house on....the foundation was shaky, so it should not be a surprise that what was built on it
isn't solid either. I was not saying what you seem to indicate re the above quote.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/26/2010 11:51:21 AM
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SweetPea83
Posts: 122
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: New-Horizons
I dont think I am going to post in this thread anymore. This will be my last post in here. This thread has wings and it is false. Its not even based on facts anymore. Perhaps is started out right, but its all wrong now.
This thread is somewhat of a joke. Everyone has come together to bully on Joel and no one really has a good reason. When I ask for proof, people dont know what to say. Its like a popular opinion here and everyone sticks together so it makes them feel good because the majority of people believe something. Instead of looking to the Word to see if Joel is wrong, a lot of people are sort of getting on the band-wagon and calling him bad. I a shocked at this kind of behavior. To each his own. Dont be suprised if Joel is in Heaven with YOU and Jesus in the end. I know a lot of people here will not like that...
Its like some people feel better about themselves that they can find fault with Joel. Well remember God will find fault with you too oneday. We justify it by saying that "oh we are testing the spirits etc" Yeah thats a good answer to provide 94 pages of negatively toward a man that is doing God's will to the best of his ability.
I CLEARLY found one example of a person who misquoted Joel and put words in his mouth then condemned him for doing something he NEVER did. I wonder how many more I could find in this thread if I actually cared. I dont care that much, because I have my own life to live and my own call to fullfill so I will focus on that. Just think about it folks, before you fall into error yourself (which a lot of people on this thread have already). Consider my pressence in this thread here as a sign and a wake-up call to you all. Clearly some of you are wrong in what you quoted Joel saying, if you cant even clearly quote what Joel said (which is easily accessible through transciprts) think how much more error you are making in figuring out his true heart intentions, (which are not easily seen by anyone except God).
Let us all not play little 'gods' and try to act like we know Joel when we really dont. Its this kind of behavior that makes me embarassed to be a Christian sometimes. I love Christ, but I am very disappointed in the Christian behavior I have witnessed. Guess what folks? The world sees that too, and thats why they dont want to be Christians.
I know that this will make everyone think for a few seconds, then instead of changing, they will all gather together and stick together to find fault with Joel again and nothing will change in the end..because after all "we are testing the spirt." Otherwise known as being as negative as one can be toward Joel, finding fault, saying he is not going to heaven and that he doesnt know God all so that we can make ourselves feel better for the little that we do for the Kingdom of God.
Carry on, carry on.....
AMEN, New Horizons! AMEN! God bless you for speaking the truth!
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/26/2010 1:06:02 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2547
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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Joel says he "doesn't know" if Muslims are saved or not. God's Word is explicitly written against false religions.
Unfortunately this false belief is a much bigger problem within the Evangelical church today; there are many within our evangelical churches today that are expressing the same sentiment as Joel is on this issue.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/26/2010 1:16:17 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 2127
Status: offline
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In a rather gutsy move, Mark Driscoll recently exposed Osteen's false doctrine HERE.
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I will miss CW and all of you, but as I just told a member here, I look forward to seeing you in heaven...I'll be the one with rug burns from sliding into home right before the doors close!!
~Kat
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/27/2010 8:10:12 AM
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Rastus_
Posts: 2357
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Joel says he "doesn't know" if Muslims are saved or not. God's Word is explicitly written against false religions.
Unfortunately this false belief is a much bigger problem within the Evangelical church today; there are many within our evangelical churches today that are expressing the same sentiment as Joel is on this issue.
I wonder if Joel was talking about Muslims (or any other person) who have never heard the gospel and who will be judged according to what they do know about right and wrong(?)
"I don't know" is probably the best answer there is in regard to those people.
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“And now I will show you the most excellent way.” (1 Corinthians 12:30)
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/27/2010 8:18:40 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rastus_
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Joel says he "doesn't know" if Muslims are saved or not. God's Word is explicitly written against false religions.
Unfortunately this false belief is a much bigger problem within the Evangelical church today; there are many within our evangelical churches today that are expressing the same sentiment as Joel is on this issue.
I wonder if Joel was talking about Muslims (or any other person) who have never heard the gospel and who will be judged according to what they do know about right and wrong(?)
"I don't know" is probably the best answer there is in regard to those people.
Joel's original response was that Muslims are saved a different way than Christians, not through Jesus Christ. At best, Joel is a theological buffoon, at worst, a raving heretic. In any case, I don't waste any more of my time listening to him on any topic.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/27/2010 1:14:05 PM
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Rastus_
Posts: 2357
Joined: 10/17/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rastus_
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Joel says he "doesn't know" if Muslims are saved or not. God's Word is explicitly written against false religions.
Unfortunately this false belief is a much bigger problem within the Evangelical church today; there are many within our evangelical churches today that are expressing the same sentiment as Joel is on this issue.
I wonder if Joel was talking about Muslims (or any other person) who have never heard the gospel and who will be judged according to what they do know about right and wrong(?)
"I don't know" is probably the best answer there is in regard to those people.
Joel's original response was that Muslims are saved a different way than Christians, not through Jesus Christ. At best, Joel is a theological buffoon, at worst, a raving heretic. In any case, I don't waste any more of my time listening to him on any topic.
I wonder if this 'different way' is in the sense that those who don't have a gospel to respond to, but obey that which conscience and nature dictate as truth can be saved through obedience to that knowledge as Romans 2 suggests.
For those who may not believe it, I've heard some Muslim counties have so suppressed the gospel that there really are people living in the world today who have not heard about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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“And now I will show you the most excellent way.” (1 Corinthians 12:30)
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/27/2010 1:33:07 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea83
AMEN, New Horizons! AMEN! God bless you for speaking the truth!
And what "truth" is that?
Please see posts 2305 and 2307.
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 10/28/2010 4:33:41 PM
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facedown
Posts: 724
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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quote:
In a rather gutsy move, Mark Driscoll
hahaha, i wouldn't listen to much from him either
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-| you are the ones who justify yourselves |-
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 11/11/2010 3:21:16 PM
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heykitty72
Posts: 1
Joined: 10/20/2010
Status: offline
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I couldn't read a lot on this thread but I did read enough to see there was a lot of bashing. Personally, I like Joel Osteen. I have a very dear friend, that like most that posted, can't stand him. He has a different style. Everyone can't bring fire and brimstone all the time. He's not beating people over the head with a heavy dose of theology that most people don't understand anyway. But he does preach the word. That's why there are different preachers, for different churches for different believers. God knew that one size did not fit all.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 11/11/2010 3:58:10 PM
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copybingo
Posts: 77
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heykitty72
I couldn't read a lot on this thread but I did read enough to see there was a lot of bashing. Personally, I like Joel Osteen. I have a very dear friend, that like most that posted, can't stand him. He has a different style. Everyone can't bring fire and brimstone all the time. He's not beating people over the head with a heavy dose of theology that most people don't understand anyway. But he does preach the word. That's why there are different preachers, for different churches for different believers. God knew that one size did not fit all.
If you don't preach about hell and the practical consequences of sin, you're not preaching the whole gospel. You're also doing a huge disservice to your congregation.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 11/11/2010 4:16:48 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heykitty72
I couldn't read a lot on this thread but I did read enough to see there was a lot of bashing. Personally, I like Joel Osteen. I have a very dear friend, that like most that posted, can't stand him. He has a different style. Everyone can't bring fire and brimstone all the time. He's not beating people over the head with a heavy dose of theology that most people don't understand anyway. But he does preach the word. That's why there are different preachers, for different churches for different believers. God knew that one size did not fit all.
I don't have a serious problem with his style, but I have a very serious problem with the heresies that have come from his mouth. He may have a million dollar personality and delivery, but his content is worth no more than two bits.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 11/12/2010 8:53:14 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heykitty72
I couldn't read a lot on this thread but I did read enough to see there was a lot of bashing.
Translated to mean....You ignored the DOCUMENTED evidence of his false teaching.
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Personally, I like Joel Osteen. I have a very dear friend, that like most that posted, can't stand him.
I don't recall anyone here saying that they "can't stand him". It would be safe to assume that most of us have never met him. In fact, he's probably a nice guy.
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He has a different style.
If by different style you mean:
- Failing to admit that Jesus is the only way to Heaven
- Teaching that Jesus had to descend to hell, fight the devil in some mythical battle to become, the first "born again man"
Then, yes he has a "different" style.
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Everyone can't bring fire and brimstone all the time. He's not beating people over the head with a heavy dose of theology that most people don't understand anyway.
He NEVER, and I repeat NEVER, mentions sin and it's consequesnces. By not doing that, he completely ignores the need for a Savior. A partial gospel is a FALSE gospel.
This 'feel good" gospel is the ONLY reason he has 30,000 lemmings in his church
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But he does preach the word.
There are 93 pages containing documented proof to the contrary. The Jesus he preaches is NOT the Jesus of the Bible.
Since you made that statement, can you please provide examples where he preaches the Word? Maybe a quote, or a link to one of his "sermons"?
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That's why there are different preachers, for different churches for different believers. God knew that one size did not fit all.
God also knew that there were going to be FALSE teachers. That is why He commanded us to test all teaching against His Word and when it contradicts Scripture, it needs to be exposed.
So what you perceive as "bashing" is actually fellow believers following God's command in Scripture to test all teaching
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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