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RE: joyce meyer - 4/5/2010 9:07:26 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
How do you not know that she wasn't already in the works of moving her publications to publisher before the investigation... just because you say so does not give me facts.
I should correct my original statement since I had it backwards -it was the St Louis Post Dispatch investigation into Meyer's financial dealings and Wall Watcher's resulting demand for an IRS investigation that Meyer was responding to, as per the Wall Watcher's page –the Grassley investigation came later.
Here's what Minstry Watch says about Meyer's "pay cut"...
"Responses from JMM in the past to inquiries from MinistryWatch.com had typically been ignored until recent news coverage of the ministry, and Wall Watchers’ reporting on it ....
JMM also has made a major change in the ministry’s compensation of Joyce Meyer recently. Previously, the ministry’s board, comprised at the time of mostly family members and others who were closely tied to the Meyer family, awarded salaries as large as $900,000 as well as sizable bonuses to Joyce Meyer. Meyer’s husband was also handsomely compensated and children were on the payroll as well. At this time, it appears that many of the royalties that Joyce Meyer’s books earned were paid directly into the ministry. This approach was altered, however, to reduce Joyce Meyer’s salary to a still hefty $250,000 annually but to also remove her royalties from the ministry and instead pay them into a private company that Joyce Meyer controlled. The net effect of all of this was most likely a sizable increase in the personal compensation of Joyce Meyer and reduced revenues for JMM. JMM has never fully explained the motive behind these changes. It stands to reason that the ministry may have determined that the previous high salary and bonuses Joyce Meyer earned might come under IRS scrutiny for being excessive."
Anyone interested in Meyer's response to the St Louis Post Dispatch article, and Ministry Watch's ensuing demand for an IRS investigation, should see their very thorough examination of Meyer at:
http://www.ministrywatch.com/profile/Joyce-Meyer.aspx
That Meyer's "pay cut" actually was an increase is confirmed by Meyer's own Public Relations Director, Mark Sutherland, in an article in the St Louis Business Journal:
"The royalties from the book sales donated by Joyce Meyer were "way above," what Dave and Joyce Meyer collected in salary, Sutherland said. He declined to give the amount of royalties. "
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2004/07/12/story8.html
Christianity Today reported more on the extent of Meyer's increase in income:
"Meyer's book royalties in the past several years have more than doubled what she and her husband, Dave, earned in salary.”
“Leonard [Meyer’s lawyer] believes Meyer's decision to take a reduced salary is a cautionary step. "She's drastically reducing the amount of money coming into her pocket from the ministry and increasing the amount she's getting from outside the ministry. That positions her better for an IRS investigation," he said.”
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/januaryweb-only/1-19-13.0.html?start=2
Prior to the “pay cut”...
“Minutes of ministry board meetings show that for 2002 and 2003, the board approved compensation packages of up to $900,000 for Joyce Meyer and up to $450,000 for her husband.”
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/joycemeyer.nsf/0/3230A355F7AB972B862570260050AE09?OpenDocument
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 2:43:51 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
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yes Ken you have done your home work..
but I still do not see where they are stealing money from the people...just because they get a large salary doesnt mean anything to me. From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry. The fact that most of the people running the ministry are family and people they TRUST is a key...you cannot just have Anyone running the ministry there has to be TRUST there ...remember JESUS had 12 apostles one of them betrayed HIM...so to have family helping to run the ministry I really dont have a problem with. This is their Life and it would not be any different if it were a Real Estate business etc...
I know many people don't like these people making this kind of money ...so I say take it to GOD let HIM deal with them...ask HIM for confirmation who is deceiving and who is not...just because someone posts something and make it look like they are doing such and such doesn't make it truth..
I mean someone could post that you have been seen a number of times in a area where there are male prostitutes and they could make it look like you are down there hiring male prostitutes...when in fact that is not the truth...I don't care what people say I go to GOD and let HIM show me the truth..then I PRAY FOR THEM
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 4:13:17 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry.
If you'd read my post above, Meyer pulled over $900,000 per year out of her "ministry" in order to give herself a pay increase -while simultaneously showing a "pay cut" (to a mere $250,000) on ministry statements. That's really "wise as as serpent at pulling in the money", in my opinion.
That money, by the way, does not include "the benefit of living in a ministry-provided parsonage and contributions to retirement plans" according to Meyer's own financial statement. (click on http://tinyurl.com/yft8vu5 for the pdf from her website)
And Meyer is making this money by selling a perverted and corrupt anti-gospel of greed and self-aggrandisement that leads people away from Christ and into delusion. The apostle Paul doesn't say you should pray for such people, he says "let them be accursed".
In your post you equate a "ministry" with a "business", as others have done in this thread. That's exactly the opposite of what Christ and the apostles taught that a "ministry" should be.
As I've said before I suggest you read my article on Meyer's teaching: http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com and check out Debbie Dewar's critique of other Meyer books from the link at the bottom.
< Message edited by KenJacobsen -- 4/6/2010 8:36:08 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 4:25:20 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Delight yourself in the LORD;And He will give you the desires of your heart.
-Psalm 37:4
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 4:41:23 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Delight yourself in the LORD;And He will give you the desires of your heart.
-Psalm 37:4
This is the kind of verse Meyer and the WOF televangelist crowd pervert into meaning "Use Jesus as a tool to make money for yourself."
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 4:46:10 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Delight yourself in the LORD;And He will give you the desires of your heart.
-Psalm 37:4
This is the kind of verse Meyer and the WOF televangelist crowd pervert into meaning "Use Jesus as a tool to make money for yourself."
Which is amazing since it says the exact reverse. It is related to what Jesus said about seeking first His kingdom and His righteousness above material needs. And the "all these things will be added to you" portion of that verse is referring to necessities, not earthly riches or excess for personal pleasure.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/6/2010 5:44:23 PM
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michele_erin
Posts: 38
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quote:
Which is amazing since it says the exact reverse. It is related to what Jesus said about seeking first His kingdom and His righteousness above material needs. And the "all these things will be added to you" portion of that verse is referring to necessities, not earthly riches or excess for personal pleasure.
Amen!!!!!!!
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 9:22:58 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
but I still do not see where they are stealing money from the people...just because they get a large salary doesnt mean anything to me. From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry.
Is this using funds in the correct way:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 2:03:12 PM
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FacingFoward
Posts: 30
Joined: 4/2/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
but I still do not see where they are stealing money from the people...just because they get a large salary doesnt mean anything to me. From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry.
Is this using funds in the correct way:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000
And this proves what? Maybe someone could list the things you buy,, and someone else with less would think you were living the good life.. Its all perspective..
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 2:40:13 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 3560
Joined: 1/25/2008
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It proves that something is fishy when the money people pay for a ministry goes to purchasing the extravagance.
It's one thing to take care of your family...it's another to be obscene about it. And to people who send their money in, on good faith, hoping that G-d will hear their cry through this woman...this is obscene.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 3:08:03 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FacingFoward
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
but I still do not see where they are stealing money from the people...just because they get a large salary doesnt mean anything to me. From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry.
Is this using funds in the correct way:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000
And this proves what? Maybe someone could list the things you buy,, and someone else with less would think you were living the good life.. Its all perspective..
Not sure about you, but I would expect MOST of my donations to a ministry to go to....uh, I don't know...feeding the poor or spreading the Gospel.
Last I checked, I don't recall the disciples needing a $105,000 boat, a $53,000 car or a $10 MILLION (yes, that's with EIGHT 0's) jet to spread the Word.
Or I don't recall them having $18,000 crystal vases, a $23,000 commode, or a $14,000 bookcase during their ministry.
But hey, shame on me, we are not supposed to "touch God's anointed"
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 3:26:32 PM
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michele_erin
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
but I still do not see where they are stealing money from the people...just because they get a large salary doesnt mean anything to me. From what I seen most of the money goes back into the ministry.
Is this using funds in the correct way:
- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000
And this proves what? Maybe someone could list the things you buy,, and someone else with less would think you were living the good life.. Its all perspective..
She's "living the good life" off of other people's money who are sending it into her ministry trusting that the Lord will take care of them. It would be one thing had she earned it a different way, but she is taking money sent in by people to a MINISTRY -- not a corporation, although really she is selling Jesus for all this stuff. Makes me sick.
Matt 23:25 Jesus says "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self indulgence." -- I don't know about you, but her spending appears to be greed and self indulgence to me.
Jesus even tells his disciples in Matt. 10:9 - 10 "Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep." I don't see them using even a horse drawn carriage to carry them to their ministry -- they used their feet! not a $107,000 car. Granted they didn't have cars in that time, but the equivolent of a $107,000 car. Nope, they did not use it.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 3:38:23 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
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When Christ sends the apostles out to preach the gospel he tells them,
“You have received without payment, so give without payment.” Matt 10:8
While Meyer and the WOF pack ruthlessly squeeze every last dime she can from Christians to “support the ministry” she's feeding them a poisonous anti-gospel that blinds them even further to the truth and leads them into the ditch, not to Christ.
How completely unlike what Christ taught and did! How could they be more guilty of perverting the teachings and example of Christ for nothing other than to satisfy their own insatiable greed! How can people be so blind to this?
The Christ that Meyer teaches is neither Lord, nor God, nor Savior, nor Messiah. Instead he's only a tool you use to get you what you want.
I’ve spent many hours comparing the teachings of Meyer with the Bible at http://joycevsjesus.wordpress.com –there's a link to another critique of Meyer's teachings by Debbie Dewar of christiandiscernment.com at the end.
I have chapters coming on Meyer’s perverted teaching about sin (“The Devil Made Her Do It”) and her WOF roots (“Voodoo Jesus”).
And by the way, I’m not getting paid for writing it.
< Message edited by KenJacobsen -- 4/7/2010 4:01:28 PM >
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 3:39:55 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: michele_erin
She's "living the good life" off of other people's money who are sending it into her ministry trusting that the Lord will take care of them. It would be one thing had she earned it a different way, but she is taking money sent in by people to a MINISTRY -- not a corporation, although really she is selling Jesus for all this stuff. Makes me sick.
Amen to that!
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 5:02:34 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
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I for one don't have a problem with GOD's people having things...but that is just me...and if she is not teaching the truth she will have to discuss that with GOD I am not her judge.
People need to stop believing what everyman says and go directly to GOD to find out Truth..this is the issue ...to many people just accept what pastor or speaker so and so says is gospel truth...
its time people get into the word and face to face with GOD
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 5:26:56 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
People need to stop believing what everyman says and go directly to GOD to find out Truth..this is the issue ...to many people just accept what pastor or speaker so and so says is gospel truth...
its time people get into the word and face to face with GOD
Exactly, and Meyer's is rejecting the teachings of the gospel to teach her poisonous anti-gospel. Her teachings in almost every possible way pervert and contradict the teachings of the Bible.
She teaches her followers to reject what Christ did for them and to believe in themselves (and in her) instead, and she teaches her followers to reject the command of Christ to love others as he loved us and to love themselves instead. And that's only a fraction of it.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 5:41:50 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
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Paul warned Timothy very clearly about such people in 1 Tim chapter 6:
5 ... people who are depraved in mind and deprived of truth. They think that godliness is a way to make a profit.
6Of course, godliness with contentment does bring a great profit.
7 Nothing to this world we bring;
from it take we nothing.
8 With food to eat and clothes to wear;
content we are in everything.
9But people who want to get rich keep toppling into temptation and are trapped by many stupid and harmful desires that plunge them into destruction and ruin. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, in their eagerness to get rich, have wandered away from the faith and caused themselves a lot of pain.
Could he have possibly been clearer? How is it possible to ignore this?
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 5:58:32 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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sooo what is it that you would like us to do about Joyce Meyers Ministries?
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 6:04:48 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
sooo what is it that you would like us to do about Joyce Meyers Ministries?
Who exactly is "us"?
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 6:29:26 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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us? those of us that have read and posted
i honestly dont know why people on this board posts thread with this kind of content...
in my mind we are to be up lifting to each other ...not gossiping about so and so and how much they make or how much they spend...
I don't understand the reasoning behind posting all this about Joyce Meyers...it is beyond my mind why so many people post this kind of stuff
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 6:53:34 PM
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KenJacobsen
Posts: 121
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
us? those of us that have read and posted
i honestly dont know why people on this board posts thread with this kind of content...
in my mind we are to be up lifting to each other ...not gossiping about so and so and how much they make or how much they spend...
I don't understand the reasoning behind posting all this about Joyce Meyers...it is beyond my mind why so many people post this kind of stuff
Please give me an example of how I've "gossiped" about Joyce Meyer.
I've spent many hours examining her teaching in the light of scripture, which you claim you follow, yet you don't seem to want to even bother to compare Meyer's teachings with those very scriptures yourself, though you claim everyone should.
Paul says if anyone preaches a different gospel, "let him [or her] be accursed" yet in the light of the Bible, Meyer is doing just that, preaching a perverted and warped version of the gospel that leads to destruction and away from Christ and making millions doing so.
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 6:58:12 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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any time you speak about someone that is not uplifting .....that is gossiping
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RE: joyce meyer - 4/7/2010 6:59:24 PM
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teclils
Posts: 19
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KenJacobsen
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
us? those of us that have read and posted
i honestly dont know why people on this board posts thread with this kind of content...
in my mind we are to be up lifting to each other ...not gossiping about so and so and how much they make or how much they spend...
I don't understand the reasoning behind posting all this about Joyce Meyers...it is beyond my mind why so many people post this kind of stuff
Please give me an example of how I've "gossiped" about Joyce Meyer.
I've spent many hours examining her teaching in the light of scripture, which you claim you follow, yet you don't seem to want to even bother to compare Meyer's teachings with those very scriptures yourself, though you claim everyone should.
Paul says if anyone preaches a different gospel, "let him [or her] be accursed" yet in the light of the Bible, Meyer is doing just that, preaching a perverted and warped version of the gospel that leads to destruction and away from Christ and making millions doing so.
I never claimed I follow Joyce Meyer...where did I say that?
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We have been warned of the wolves amongst the sheep and if Joyce Meyer isn't a canine I'll eat my wooly socks. 
