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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 4:19:48 PM
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Nige55
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I'm also going through this highly interesting thread for the first time. I've just gone through the first several pages, and so far, well, - I hope the 'evidence' was not based from those pages. I'll keep reading with interest and openess. I won't pretend to be Joyce's No.1 fan, however I hope what I continue to read rises above some of what I've read so far.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 4:28:26 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 1090
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
No, I didn't read the entire 39 pages. That would take days, plus I have problems reading a lot on the screen and sure can't print all this out.
It would be useful. Maybe someone can bring about a chunk of her quotes and teachings into one quick post, but that's a lot of work, too.
quote:
I still say that she helps more than she could ever hurt. And I stills say that there is no way that she sat down and planned out how to get rich - start teaching in her home, then small groups, sell cassette tapes, write books, grow and grow until she is traveling all over the world to places that I would never go (you couldn't pay me to go!) - do all of that with the end goal in her mind to become a millionaire??
Planned? Maybe not. But when the money DOES start rolling in, it's pretty hard to stop, isn't it?
quote:
And would you live her life for what she has? Would you spend the first 18 years of your life being abused in every way by both parents so that when you get into your 50's you have money and a beautiful home? I wouldn't.
No matter how bad her life was, it doesn't excuse false teachings.
quote:
I like to listen to her because she teaches practical, everyday life living.
The BIble teaches a lot about practical, every day life living, and yet, it disagrees with Joyce. Who do you side with when their is a contradiction? Joyce, or God?
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If she misses the Bible (in my view or in your view), I just ignore it like I do all other ministers, both on TV and in my local churches (or in between).
She does miss the Bible, but you shouldn't just ignore what she said . . . when she misses enough, you should ignore her.
quote:
I don't know the exact scriptures where she has missed the Word that has caused these types of comments from you all, and I guess I would know if I read the entire Forum, but that's an impossible task. If it were easier to print from the Forum, I would do so, but it prints one page at a time and each page uses about 3 pieces of paper. I don't know how to shorten the posts to print using less paper. Especially since so many posts quote former posts, so there is a whole lot of repeating.
Yeah . . it's a difficult task. Maybe, if I get time, or someone else does, we can create a summary.
quote:
I did see the posts listing all her possessions and also the link showing where she and her children live. But she didn't steal any money to get any of this. I don't resent her having a salary. She sure works hard for it. I don't resent her husband and children having salaries. They work for them also.
They use her ministry's money, which makes her tax exempt. I don't care how hard you work, spending 20 grand on a toilet is EXCESSIVE and unchristlike.
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What I do resent is the congressmen and senators giving themselves raises every year and having the best healthcare in the land when I can't even get any after working for 40+ years. But that's another subject.
How is she any different than them? The senators use tax-payer dollars, and Joyce uses money given to her at her events (which I assume people think are going to some charity).
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BTW, most churches that I know give their pastor and family a house to live in (the parsonage), a salary, pay their medical insurance, sometimes even give them cars, pay for their travel when it's associated with church business, give them love offerings, huge presents at Christmas, on their birthdays, and on Pastor's Appreciation days, plus many other benefits. So if a congregation of 2000 can do all that, what's wrong with Joyce having what she has since she preaches to millions of people every year?
Many pastors NEED that to get by because they bring in NO MONEY to themselves from their ministry.
Joyce could go without taking in another dollar the rest of her life, and be fine.
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I also respect the fact that she doesn't charge for her seminars.
Where did you get that idea? That's bogus. Here is an example straight from her site:
https://shop.joycemeyer.org/eStore/wc10registration/default.aspx
The "Early Bird Special" is $45/ticket.
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I saw Joyce on Larry King and he asked her if homosexuality is wrong and she didn't hesitate a second to say it is. I saw Larry ask Joel and a couple of other preachers and they hem-hawed around and was afraid to give a straight answer (no pun intended) out of fear of offending someone and maybe losing some offerings.
Well, I am glad that Joyce got one thing right, but here is the deal: rat poison is made of 99% water and 1% poison. . . but that 1% kills and destroys. Joyce is much the same.
_____________________________
rawr.ben
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 4:34:43 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
His truth - and not one "revealed" by a woman who dresses like a Las Vegas call girl.
I hope I'm just in doing so, and allthough I may be late, very late LOL ! (and not fully read through this whole thread), I wish to comment as I go along. ---- Given her long term sexually abused childhood, this evil comment should have been addressed by the admins. In reading further, I pray it has been already dealt with (and I pray for Bro_Shane himself too)
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 4:39:57 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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I dearly hope there is a link / source to these quotes later in the thread. It's sad to read so many posts refering to a pasted article with no source or links in the early pages of this thread.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
"Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich. Everything she has came from Him: the $10 million corporate jet, her husband's $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children — all blessings, she says, straight from the hand of God..."If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid," Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. "I'm living now in my reward."
Meyer is fond of nice things and is willing to spend for them. From an $11,000 French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters to a $105,000 Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks, it's clear her tastes run more to Perrier than to tap water.
The building is decorated with religious paintings and sculptures, and quality furniture. Much of it, Meyer says, she selected herself.
A Jefferson County assessor's list offers a glimpse into the value of many of the items: a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200.
The decor includes a $30,000 malachite round table, a $23,000 marble-topped antique commode, a $14,000 custom office bookcase, a $7,000 Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain, a $6,300 eagle sculpture on a pedestal, another eagle made of silver bought for $5,000, and numerous paintings purchased for $1,000 to $4,000 each.
Inside Meyer's private office suite sit a conference table and 18 chairs bought for $49,000. The woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband cost the ministry $44,000.
Meyer drives the ministry's 2002 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top, valued at $53,000. Her son Dan, 25, drives the ministry's 2001 Lexus sedan, with a value of $46,000. Meyer's husband drives his Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG sedan.
"My husband just likes cars," Meyer said. The Meyers keep the ministry's Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet, which Joyce Meyer says is worth $10 million, at Spirit of St. Louis Airport in Chesterfield. The ministry employs two full-time pilots to fly the Meyers to conferences around the world.
Security is important to Meyer, who says she has received death threats. She has a division of the ministry dedicated to her safety. Her officers wear pistols; they guard the headquarters' front gate, keeping out anyone but employees and invited guests.
The ministry bought a $145,000 house where the security chief lives rent-free to keep him close to the ministry's headquarters.
Since 1999, the ministry has spent at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children near Interstate 270 and Gravois Road, St. Louis County records show.
Meyer's house, the largest of the five, is a 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate home with a guest house and a garage that can be independently heated and cooled and can hold up to eight cars. The three-acre property has a large fountain, a gazebo, a private putting green, a pool and a poolhouse where the ministry recently added a $10,000 bathroom."
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 4:44:37 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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I hope there are some direct links / sources to this later in the thread. Once again, I wish people would provide a link / source to information that is clearly of huge concern / relevance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Dear mom2jules:
No problem! WOF stands for 'Word of Faith' - also called 'Word Faith'. It encompasses a particular set of doctrines taught by various preachers. Here's a few basic WOF doctrines if you are not familar with them already:
1. Jesus failed on the cross: Jesus did not atone for sin on the cross but instead was dragged into hell, became sinful in nature, and was spiritually reborn in hell.
2. Men are gods: Jesus came to earth as a man and 'worked' his way into Godhood and became born again. Since men are also born again, they have the same potential as Christ and are actually little Christs and gods, equal to Christ and able to do what He did.
3. Faith: Faith is believed to be a source of supernatural power. This 'force of faith' can be used by believers to attain what they desire.
4. Positive confession: They are to speak words in 'faith' to accomplish their goals and their desires. These desires can be material goods, wealth, health, success... whatever they want.
5. God is obligated to do our will: God allegedly promises wealth, prosperity, health, and success to believers. Therefore God must obey His own Word by giving believers these things when asked. WOF followers are told not to ask, but to demand what they want from God. If believers are not attaining these things, they are considered to be lacking in their faith and the fault lies with them.
Joyce Meyers, most unfortunately, does fall under the Word of Faith category and that is what so many are addressing here.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 5:22:03 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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OK, so I'm reading on. I want to make it clear that I'm not disbeleiving in any of the info that's been put forward, and certainly red flags go up when finding such info. I just wish that quotes and info were not thrown around without any sources, or rather, - a variety of sources. This however is 99 percent my role in investigating. And investigate I will. I'm really thankfull that I found this thread. I still will repeat however that red flags also go up when those discussing the issue make comments regarding plastic surgery and being dressed like a 'Las Vegas call girl'. We don't need that kind of slanderous hate-filled rubbish when seeking the truth. I read on...
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 5:58:48 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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Reading on about WOF, Crefo Dollars' 'we are Gods' type video posted.... not coming as any surprise, I'm just fascinated that there is actually a term/grouping for that kind of dangerous doctrine ! At the same time, this is so much more of a deeper subject (not the WOF deceptions), even our own pastors (and ourselves) need constant prayer to keep them from going off track. Being so public highlights their responsibility, but how many non-believers do we know who have been severely harmed by local pastors/preachers spiritually ? It's a big picture, and one much in need of prayer.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 6:38:31 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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Oh dear, quick update, - just reading other threads about WOF and 'prosperity preaching'. Sounds like you have big issues in the States surrounding this. Thoughts spring to mind, however I shall ponder them with the Lord.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 6:42:05 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
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On second 'mulling over' what I'm reading, - nothing to do with any of that, just a lot of 'messed-up-ness'. Sorry for getting off topic for a moment.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/4/2009 8:44:27 PM
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robingrossmann
Posts: 52
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
I still say that she helps more than she could ever hurt.
I like to listen to her because she teaches practical, everyday life living. She's been there and overcame a whole lot with ONLY the help of Jesus. She never attended therapy (I'm not saying anything against therapy). She sought the Lord, prayed and prayed, read the Bible over and over, worked on herself by becoming the Christian woman that she wanted to be. It took years and years of work for her to get where she is now with the Lord. The riches you talk about are a by-product.
If she misses the Bible (in my view or in your view), I just ignore it like I do all other ministers, both on TV and in my local churches (or in between).
If anyone knows a way to eliminate the repeats (quotes), and print all this out using a whole lot less paper, let me know. I'll print this out and read it.
I don't resent her having a salary. She sure works hard for it. I don't resent her husband and children having salaries. They work for them also. What I do resent is the congressmen and senators giving themselves raises every year and having the best healthcare in the land when I can't even get any after working for 40+ years. But that's another subject.
amen.
_____________________________
Things happens in God's time...not in ours.
Some things are not meant for us to understand until we are face to face with God Himself.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 9:03:46 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
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FWIW: My wife and mother, both solid students of the Bible and godly women but decidedly not WOF, both have a high regard for Joyce Meyer, more so than Beth Moore.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 10:06:55 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
It would be useful. Maybe someone can bring about a chunk of her quotes and teachings into one quick post, but that's a lot of work, too.
Teaches WOF doctrine that Jesus was "born again" in hell:
In her booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, an evangelistic work aimed at nonbelievers, she resounds the Word-Faith view of Christ’s atonement:
“During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there ... no plan was too extreme ... Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (pg. 35, underlining in the original).
“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man” (pg. 36, underlining in the original).
“His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go. Remember in the very beginning of this, I said, ‘When you die, only your body dies. The rest of you, your soul and spirit, goes either to heaven or hell’” (ibid.).
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell” (ibid.).
“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, ).
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 10:13:24 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
...“Jesus went to hell for you”
While I don't agree with that interpretation of 1 Peter 3, there are a lot, a LOT of orthodox, non WOF, theologians and believers that would agree with the essence of what you posted.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 10:28:24 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nige55
I dearly hope there is a link / source to these quotes later in the thread. It's sad to read so many posts refering to a pasted article with no source or links in the early pages of this thread.
Her DOCUMENTED WOF teaching:
These are absurd to think that our words can kill a plan of an Almighty and Sovereign God. This is the height of arrogance to think that our words can kill what God wants to do?
-You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across, he said, ‘Why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man—not His whole creation, but His man—little gods? If He’s God, what’s He going to call them but the god-kind?’ I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind. If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle-kind. So, I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Doesn’t the Bible say we’re created in his image? Now, you understand I am not saying you are God with a capital G."
(Joyce Meyer, "Authority and Opposition," Tape 1236.)
- "Our words are containers of power. The power of life and death is in the tongue."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold?" TBN, May 24, 2004)
-"We can kill the plan of God for our lives with a negative confession."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I want to say it again, be sure you're not killing God's good plan for your life by letting negative words come out of our mouth all of the time. I believe that wrong words affect our health. I would go so far as to say that there are people here today that you may be sick in your body simply because of speaking wrong words, negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"Say this with me, 'I will not kill God's good plan for my life by speaking negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I want us to think again for a minute in closing about this thing about making sure that we're not killing God's plan with negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"If I speak death I'll eat death. If I speak life I'll eat life...I want you to say with me, 'I can destroy my life with my own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I believe that words are containers for power and they either carry negative or positive power. They carry creative or destructive power. So, if I'm speaking right things I'm going to have right results. And if I'm speaking wrong things I'm going to have wrong results. And we do pay for our words. If, if I can say it like this, we eat our own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"When Jesus was experiencing the most intense pressure of His life, He decided that it would be wise not to open His mouth. Why? I believe it was because He realized that in His humanity, He would have been tempted to do the same thing you and I are tempted to do—doubt, question God, complain, or say something negative."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Crossing Over to the Other Side" May 2004)
- "Our Words Are Containers of Power: "Words are very important, and we will be held responsible for them. Proverbs 18:21 says, Death and life are in the power of the tongue…What we say has the power to impact our lives and the lives of others in a negative or a positive way. That’s why we need to learn to think about what we’re going to say before we say it."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
- "Did you know that you can change the very course of your life by the type of words you speak?"
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
-"My teaching this weekend as usual is not going to be doctrinally religious. It's going to be something that you can use in your everyday life."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 1 of 4 the "Mind")
-"But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking. And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 6.
-"The faith movement is right. You can't throw the faith movement out the window."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14.)
- "We need to have faith filled words going out of our mouth."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14. Satan and Demons-Origin and Fall, side 2)
-"Giving doesn't cost, it pays!"
(Joyce Meyer, Daystar Spring Share-A-Thon, March 2, 2004)
-"Words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow.
(Joyce Meyer, audio-clip, "Bible Answer-man," Hank Hanegraaff, January, 2003)
-"Poverty is probably one of the most unique spirits to watch. You can watch a spirit of poverty take over an entire neighborhood...And almost always with a poverty spirit, comes a spirit that just stinks. I mean, a poverty spirit just plain stinks. When I get people at the altar that got a poverty spirit on them they almost always have bad breath and body odor."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, page 6)
-"You got a storage bin, a storage locker in heaven that has alot of stuff in it that needs to be claimed."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
-"We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 11/5/2009 10:34:24 AM >
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 10:43:20 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 12143
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
-James 1:6-8 (KJV)
But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
(NASB)
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/5/2009 8:31:59 PM
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robingrossmann
Posts: 52
Joined: 8/2/2009
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Thank you Soxfan. Much appreciated.
_____________________________
Things happens in God's time...not in ours.
Some things are not meant for us to understand until we are face to face with God Himself.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/6/2009 2:40:53 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1470
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Robin-again
Thank you Soxfan. Much appreciated.
Anytime! Iron sharpens Iron!
_____________________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/7/2009 11:23:25 PM
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robingrossmann
Posts: 52
Joined: 8/2/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
Are you more sound in the Word of God because of her, or was it due to self-help type psycho-babble?
I am as strong as before she entered the picture.
I completely submitted myself to Him when I ask for His help.
_____________________________
Things happens in God's time...not in ours.
Some things are not meant for us to understand until we are face to face with God Himself.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/8/2009 5:10:53 PM
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Nige55
Posts: 48
Joined: 8/2/2009
Status: offline
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Thank you very much indeed for posting this. I will look into it further. I have to admit I see the negative words (I.E. mentallity/approach/attitude) topic differently, however I'm very appreciative of the info you posted. Thanks !
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nige55
I dearly hope there is a link / source to these quotes later in the thread. It's sad to read so many posts refering to a pasted article with no source or links in the early pages of this thread.
Her DOCUMENTED WOF teaching:
These are absurd to think that our words can kill a plan of an Almighty and Sovereign God. This is the height of arrogance to think that our words can kill what God wants to do?
-You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across, he said, ‘Why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man—not His whole creation, but His man—little gods? If He’s God, what’s He going to call them but the god-kind?’ I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind. If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle-kind. So, I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Doesn’t the Bible say we’re created in his image? Now, you understand I am not saying you are God with a capital G."
(Joyce Meyer, "Authority and Opposition," Tape 1236.)
- "Our words are containers of power. The power of life and death is in the tongue."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold?" TBN, May 24, 2004)
-"We can kill the plan of God for our lives with a negative confession."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I want to say it again, be sure you're not killing God's good plan for your life by letting negative words come out of our mouth all of the time. I believe that wrong words affect our health. I would go so far as to say that there are people here today that you may be sick in your body simply because of speaking wrong words, negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"Say this with me, 'I will not kill God's good plan for my life by speaking negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I want us to think again for a minute in closing about this thing about making sure that we're not killing God's plan with negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"If I speak death I'll eat death. If I speak life I'll eat life...I want you to say with me, 'I can destroy my life with my own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"I believe that words are containers for power and they either carry negative or positive power. They carry creative or destructive power. So, if I'm speaking right things I'm going to have right results. And if I'm speaking wrong things I'm going to have wrong results. And we do pay for our words. If, if I can say it like this, we eat our own words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
-"When Jesus was experiencing the most intense pressure of His life, He decided that it would be wise not to open His mouth. Why? I believe it was because He realized that in His humanity, He would have been tempted to do the same thing you and I are tempted to do—doubt, question God, complain, or say something negative."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Crossing Over to the Other Side" May 2004)
- "Our Words Are Containers of Power: "Words are very important, and we will be held responsible for them. Proverbs 18:21 says, Death and life are in the power of the tongue…What we say has the power to impact our lives and the lives of others in a negative or a positive way. That’s why we need to learn to think about what we’re going to say before we say it."
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
- "Did you know that you can change the very course of your life by the type of words you speak?"
(Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everyday Life Magazine, "Think before You Speak" May 2004)
-"My teaching this weekend as usual is not going to be doctrinally religious. It's going to be something that you can use in your everyday life."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 1 of 4 the "Mind")
-"But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking. And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 6.
-"The faith movement is right. You can't throw the faith movement out the window."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14.)
- "We need to have faith filled words going out of our mouth."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, pg. 14. Satan and Demons-Origin and Fall, side 2)
-"Giving doesn't cost, it pays!"
(Joyce Meyer, Daystar Spring Share-A-Thon, March 2, 2004)
-"Words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow.
(Joyce Meyer, audio-clip, "Bible Answer-man," Hank Hanegraaff, January, 2003)
-"Poverty is probably one of the most unique spirits to watch. You can watch a spirit of poverty take over an entire neighborhood...And almost always with a poverty spirit, comes a spirit that just stinks. I mean, a poverty spirit just plain stinks. When I get people at the altar that got a poverty spirit on them they almost always have bad breath and body odor."
(Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, page 6)
-"You got a storage bin, a storage locker in heaven that has alot of stuff in it that needs to be claimed."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
-"We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold" May 21, 2004)
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 11:27:36 AM
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TnTX
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/10/2009
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This past weekend I went to see Joyce Meyer in Houston with some friends. I have always liked her. I've read a few of her books. One of them was helpful at one time, as a baby Christian, but after reading it again I just found it to be standard self-help stuff I was hearing everywhere. Where is God's Word????? It seems intermingled and taken out of context within her speaking.
Right out of the hat, Joyce started speaking about being baptized in the Spirit. It didn't bother me much. She then took a short little scripture and quoted it, saying "I thank God that I speak in tongues, more than all of you." It kind of surprised me because it sounded arrogant. Everyone laughed. She said, "I don't know why you are laughing. Paul said that." She then starts going into speaking in tongues and how it helps one to pray when they don't know what to pray, etc. etc. etc. I really don't have a problem with it much because I've always believed that that was a gift for some and not for all and I didn't know enough about it, fullly (even after studying), to call it a load of junk or full-on truth.
She then proceeded to ask that everyone in the auditorium who speaks in tongues to raise their hand. This made me somewhat uncomfortable. I don't speak in tongues/never have. She then said, "Now I want all of you who don't speak in tongues to raise your hands." I did. I can't quote word for word, but she basically let all of us who don't speak in tongues know that we are lacking what God wants for us because we don't speak in tongues. It had a "feeling" that those who do speak tongues are superior to those who don't.
I'm comfortable, personally, with not speaking in tongues. I've walked with the Lord long enough and know His word well enough to know that every gift is not for every believer. I worry for baby Christians, those who may think God is holding out on them or that they aren't "spiritual" enough because they don't have this gift. I worry that that type of teaching would focus someone on an idolatry of a gift.
After that little bit of nonsense on her part, I looked up in my concordance the tidbit of scripture she had spoken at the beginning. It was completely taken out of context...COMPLETELY!! Paul wasn't bragging on his gifts. It was 1 Cor 14. He was addressing that as a gift but at the same time saying that there were other gifts that were more important. When you read the entire chapter, it really made that blurb on her part look like a heresy.
As a whole, I think she came off arrogant throughout her message. Videos were shown of all of "her" work in foreign countries. They passed the "plate" and everyone was giving. I couldn't, in good conscience, give to her or her ministry. Something is just not right!!
There was a time that I really was starting to jump into the whole wf teachings...I think God is shining His light on it now, though. It has been a year since I have felt comfortable with it all. Another poster said we need to pray for her ministry and for the gospel, that it not be misrepresented. I agree.
TnTX
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 11:37:47 AM
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TnTX
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/10/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fanatical
I see that some people might envy her and/or dont believe her some are jalous couse of the money she makes with what she does out of the love and in honor for GOD, she spreads GODS LOVE all over the world and she diserves the money she earn and then seccond u people forget about all the good she does, im not talking about what she do with the money only but yea she doesnt keep it all for herself but she invest it for good purposes but aah THE DEVIL notice that shes doing great and shes all happy and so full of love and glory, so THE DEVIL has to spread hate and tell lies and blaim her for things she do NOT! its heartbreaking news for me, when i read everything that is bad towards Joyce meyer i feel deep inside of my heart a WORD that tells me to not listen to what u spread BAD about Joyce meyer allthought im not here to judge but all i speak is true and from the heart. may god bless you for i pray for you all, also to those who do bad.
she has been a great WORD of god, Manny thanks to our LORD GOD IN HEAVEN!
i have to appologize but u should be a shame of yourself, u deal with such anger against her
I have always felt much like you as far as people standing against her and Joel Olsteen, etc. In my mind there is good in their teaching and they are doing good throughout the world. I believe we are called to question our teachers, though. If I'm going to hear heresy in someone's teaching, then it is going to be difficult for me to continually have to monitor their every word to make sure it lines of Biblically. I'm sure I could do that...listen to her teaching and gleen some good things from it, but the absolute work of discerning truth vs. lies is so difficult that I'm afraid I'd always have to be on the watch. I'd rather turn my attention to teachers that have a history of speaking Biblical truth.
Bless you!! I think we need to pray that God's Truth be spread and pray that those who are equipped will continue to call heresy what it is when they see it! It is absolutely necessary!
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 12:10:59 PM
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mysteryofgospel
Posts: 192
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline
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TnTx,
I don't know if Joyce continued Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 14 but he was minimizing the gift of speaking in tongues in the Corinthians letter.
v. 19, "yet in church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in tongues."
He goes on to explain, in verse 22 that, "tongues are given for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers."
Confident believers do not need to speak in tongues, nor need to hear others speak in tongues. Only doubters need the continual act of tongues for their disbelief. God is showing the gift of tongues to them because they don't believe.
That is why he says in v. 21, "In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me.
Paul would rather prophesy than speak in tongues so that the church is edified so that the unbeliever is convinced and convicted to worship God.
You don't need tongues because you already believe and are confident of your faith.
If there is no edification, tongues is just another parlor trick. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace.
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 1:41:35 PM
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TnTX
Posts: 4
Joined: 11/10/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mysteryofgospel
TnTx,
I don't know if Joyce continued Paul's comments in 1 Corinthians 14 but he was minimizing the gift of speaking in tongues in the Corinthians letter.
No, she didn't continue on with Paul's comments. THAT was the big red flag for me, 1st the way she said it and 2nd that it had nothing to do with Paul's original message. That's why I went ahead and found it and read the whole passage while sitting there. That little statement, in the context that she said it, had absolutely nothing to do with what Paul was trying to say in the chapter of 1 Cor. 14.
I agree with your viewpoint on the speaking of tongues. Thanks for the response.
This is probably a "minor" infraction in her teachings, but it really showed me how very careful I need to be of anything and everything she says. I felt like it was the Lord showing me the way His Word was being confused by her and delivered wrongly to her "followers". 
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RE: joyce meyer - 11/10/2009 9:07:23 PM
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teacher1982
Posts: 29
Joined: 10/11/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
tongues is just another parlor trick I am sure that there is an OP about speaking in tongues and it shouldn't be discussed here I would think.
However, your comment really bothers me because it is awfully close to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost since tongues is a work of the Holy Ghost and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the unforgivable sin. I think everyone should be very careful when they speak against tongues and the Holy Ghost. It's dangerous.
Back to Joyce Meyer. I have listened to her for years. She, like ALL other ministers, says things that are controversial at times. But overall her messages are very good for the particular type of ministry that she has. She mainly ministers to women who have gone through similar abuse that she has. She is a wonderful example of how to overcome that type of abuse by ones parents. Not many people can forgive their Dad for doing to them what her Dad did to her, then turn around and give them a home and take care of them until they died. Not many at all. Even if you can't stand her, you have to admire that.
She recognized that she had a lot of severe emotional problems and she sought God and read the Bible for answers. She has never had secular counseling by a therapist or psychiatrist. Most people who have suffered the sexual and other abuse that she has would need years of therapy to get over it. She did it the right way by turning to Jesus. Her testimony just in that area has helped hundreds of thousands of women who have suffered in the same way.
I have heard her say things that bothered me, but overall her message of healing and encouragement is very very good. Abused women need to see that a person CAN recover from the abuse and have good lives. It hardly ever happens.
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