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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/26/2010 6:26:47 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EsonTheSearcher
quote:
ORIGINAL: brian231
We know that unfortuanately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by paul. We also know that 1 and 2 Peter are not written by peter! So what exactly do you mean by "inspired"?
You will to come with with some major proof for that claim buddy...
He doesn't have any proof for these claims, and he hasn't been back to this thread since he made these fraudulent claims.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/26/2010 10:17:31 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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There is a danger for folks to wander off into Cabalistic witchcraft if they are not careful.
The Bible should not be viewed as a means for gaining "higher" truths for esoteric elevation of one's self in the spiritual realm.
I think caution is in order, and that one should pay close attention to anyone who is teaching that there is hidden knowledge and awareness unavailable from the text to be found in the "codes".
Unfortunately fadism reigns in the church, even among some teachers who should know better.
Anybody else getting tired of the cult of personality around "super" pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets in the church today?
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/26/2010 10:48:11 PM
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JohnHale
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brian231
We know that unfortuanately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by paul. We also know that 1 and 2 Peter are not written by peter! So what exactly do you mean by "inspired"?
Ah the aroma of higher criticism... just as sweet as it never was...
Couldn't stomach the assault on God's Word in the name of "knowledge" as it turns out... God's Word is perfect. Human communication is not. But God conceded to allow his perfect Word to be communicated through imperfect human communication.
We have to understand that the Bible is first and foremost about the Messiah / Creator (John 1:1-3, John 1:14 / John 5:39-40) . It is about eternal matters being played out or determined here in this temporal stage (John 3:16-18). God cares about suffering and how we treat one another and so fourth. But there is something much bigger going on here.
The Bible mentions the galactic circuit of the sun (Psalm 19:6) it is misunderstood to mean only the sky of earth. Hows this for accurate cosmology:
Job 26:7 (KJV)
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Most ancients did not address matters of earth and heaven assuming that the ground they saw and the sky above it were all there was to it. And those that did venture into astrophysics (at least contemplatively) came up with Atlas holding the world on his back and some have an endless procession of turtles the earth is supposed to be suspended upon...
How could camel traders and herdsmen come up with Job 26:7 on their own?
Job 38:12-14 (KJV)
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
Rotation on an axis like the tube seal used on clay documents of the days of Job.
You see... flat earth and the sun revolves around the earth were conclusions of ancient forms of higher criticism. The saw the earth through their eyes and understanding the way the higher biblical critic does today negating for example supernaturalism in such passages like:
Isaiah 44:28 (KJV)
28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
Isaiah lived a few hundred years before Cyrus was born and we (higher critics) "know" there is no such thing as supernaturalism so the passage of Isaiah must have been written by a student of the school of Isaiah several generations later who was a contemporary of Cyrus... and thereby justifying the division of the book of Isaiah in two and sometimes three sections mostly not authored by Isaiah.
This quote is from both sides of the alleged division in Isaiah concocted by the higher critics and it is attributed to "that Isaiah" (that same Isaiah):
John 12:37-40 (KJV)
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 7:50:07 AM
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pabrain
Posts: 309
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Hi benelchi.
I refer to your 3 posts, and would first like to apologize for the mistakes I have made.
Regarding Ruth, Tamar, and Genesis 38.
The information came from a message I heard some years ago given by Chuck Missler of, "Koinonia House". He used what he calls, "Macrocode", details of which can be found at, http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/53/ & http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/239/
I had no reason to suspect that he was not telling the truth. I may still have somewhere a recording of this message, and if I can find it, I will gladly send you a copy if you would like it.
Regarding, "First Letter Selection", I cannot remember who first told me this, it was all some time ago.
Perhaps you could tell me just what you think Jesus wished to convey when He said,
Jhn 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
Regarding, "Numeric Substitution".
You said, "No, it is actually 2 (it is the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet. & No, it is actually 1 (it is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet)".
My use of the English letter, "a", was intended to draw the attention of non Jewish speaking readers to the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet which as you have confirmed does indeed also represent 1
You also said, "If this code were really important, wouldn't it have existed in the original text and not in only in a modern translation?"
No,because there is no need for it to appear in the original text. The whole point is that the Word of God is so incredible that even in a translation a completely new code can be found, as I said,
"It is normally concluded that Codes can only be found in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, this is not in fact the case, as you can also find a completely new set of information in a translation ie English".
May the Lord bless you abundantly.
Edwin.
< Message edited by pabrain -- 7/27/2010 7:59:36 AM >
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 8:46:56 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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.
.When we think about the question of Divine inspiration of the Bible, one of our first questions should be about how do we determine what is true.
Is something true if I can prove it through hard science, and everything else is anybody's guess?
There are basic presuppositions that every person has, just to function. We have an idea of what a chair is, and if we see what looks to us like a chair there is the natural surmise that it is for sitting on. The presuppositions include that reality exists: this is not just an projected thought of a chair.
New Creations in Christ, Christians, have basic presuppositions that are inherent in the new creation, and are recognized through discipline and information gathering from the Bible.
A basic presupposition is that God is, another is that God is self-revealing.
Jesus believed the Bible was God's revelation to humans.
The real question is do you believe Jesus?
Probing these questions is necessary and good. The self-examination should be honest. Do I believe this because it is true, or because I think I'm supposed to believe this?
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 10:40:09 AM
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pabrain
Posts: 309
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Hi gralan.
You ask.
"how do we determine what is true".
Scripture tells you how to determine, how to know.
The Holy Spirit has to be allowed by you to reveal the truth to you.
This is clearly demonstrated by our Lord Jesus at,
Jhn 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Where Jesus tells us that adopting the attitude of "Not my will, but thine be done" enables Him to speak as He did at,
Jhn 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
Jhn 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
I would conclude from this that Christians who arrive at a wrong interpretation of Scripture, do so because they do not do what Jesus makes clear must be done, if the Spirit is to reveal truth to them.
We are not told here just how this is done, but might I with respect suggest the following.
Luk 24:32 And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?"
Bless you.
Edwin.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 11:08:27 AM
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7OFUS
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quote:
We know that unfortunately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by paul. We also know that 1 and 2 Peter are not written by peter! So what exactly do you mean by "inspired"?
What do you mean by "unfortunately"?
I got this same statement from a Mormon in another forum and when asked for a reference he disappeared too.
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 11:23:19 AM
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drmark
Posts: 5782
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Lot of disappearing heretics around here it seems... 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 12:47:09 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
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Laziness in believers (and heretics) when they take the word of mere men (whom they trust) rather than being a Berean and checking it out for themselves. It would save heretics and misguided believers a lot of egg on their faces.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 12:55:36 PM
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JohnHale
Posts: 275
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quote:
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
Actually the gist is in who gets the credit. Copying one source seems to lend itself to taking the credit rightfully of another for one's self. Copying several sources is the same way unless put into your own words and thereby establishing the discussion of a principle or posting of a point. And even then, it would be plagiarism to take credit for the credit not due you.
I agree however that most do not give credit where credit is due and enjoy the implied credit.
I tend to give credit to the one it is due (even if I am remembering who it was incorrectly it is apparent it is not I) and when it's something that popped into my head I give the credit to the Holy Spirit which is what I say when asked if they can quote me I say the Holy Spirit has the copyright quote away but give him the credit.
If it's something in error I'll take the blame for my misunderstanding or obvious opinion (error).
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 1:23:36 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3275
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pabrain
Hi benelchi.
I refer to your 3 posts, and would first like to apologize for the mistakes I have made.
Regarding Ruth, Tamar, and Genesis 38.
The information came from a message I heard some years ago given by Chuck Missler of, "Koinonia House". He used what he calls, "Macrocode", details of which can be found at, http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/53/ & http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/239/
I had no reason to suspect that he was not telling the truth. I may still have somewhere a recording of this message, and if I can find it, I will gladly send you a copy if you would like it.
Regarding, "First Letter Selection", I cannot remember who first told me this, it was all some time ago.
Perhaps you could tell me just what you think Jesus wished to convey when He said,
Jhn 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
Regarding, "Numeric Substitution".
You said, "No, it is actually 2 (it is the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet. & No, it is actually 1 (it is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet)".
My use of the English letter, "a", was intended to draw the attention of non Jewish speaking readers to the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet which as you have confirmed does indeed also represent 1
You also said, "If this code were really important, wouldn't it have existed in the original text and not in only in a modern translation?"
No,because there is no need for it to appear in the original text. The whole point is that the Word of God is so incredible that even in a translation a completely new code can be found, as I said,
"It is normally concluded that Codes can only be found in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, this is not in fact the case, as you can also find a completely new set of information in a translation ie English".
May the Lord bless you abundantly.
Edwin.
Missler is one of many who often stretch the truth when presenting their "coded" messages from Scripture. These people rely on the fact that most do not know how to check the false claims they make. I personally do not believe that it is beyond the possibility for God to have coded messages in Scripture, but I do get concerned when too much emphasis is placed on "codes", and when evidence is manipulated to make codes "appear" that really do not exist.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 4:08:26 PM
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ninjaaron
Posts: 139
Joined: 5/2/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brian231
We know that unfortuanately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by paul. We also know that 1 and 2 Peter are not written by peter! So what exactly do you mean by "inspired"?
Assuming that what you say about works attributed to Paul and Peter being written by someone else is true (and that assumption already puts us in a very hypothetical situation), how would that tell us that any of the Bible was uninspired? There are many anonymous books in the Bible (and perhaps a few pseudepigraphic ones) that the Church and Israel have always accepted as authoritative even when their authorship has often been in question.
Specifics of human authorship do not inspiration make. The breath of God makes it. The recognition of God's breath in a work by his people make it canon. That's what the Bible is.
_____________________________
My Bible Blog
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/27/2010 4:39:54 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
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Edwin,
I did not ask the question of you "how do we determine what is true?" That was part of a statement, and then I actually went on to discuss some of the reasons how we know things are true.
I'm glad that you provided part of the answer with your response; for there is assurance that comes from being grounded in reality with God.
There are feelings that occur, and truly we know things because God made us capable of knowing things, and there are resulting feeling that go along with understanding the truth of God as it applies everywhere.
The partial answer of "because I feel it" is a subject experience which may or may not be accurately interpreted by a person. It is my belief, and the teaching of the people of God in all its history, that God has not left us with just subjective experiences we trust assure us that what we suspect is true is true.
It appears from your writing that you understand that the only way we know anything is true is because we have allowed the Holy Spirit to reveal that to us. That puts a lot of power in the hands of human beings and leaves God waiting for us to give Him permission to act. I do not believe Human beings have such power.
If you are referring to becoming a new creation in Jesus, and submitting to God's revelation of truth, as our allowing God to reveal the truth of His word to us, well I agree. But that is not what I read in your post.
You seemed sure of two things:
-----(1) God needs us to give God permission to reveal the truth to us.
-----(2) We will know we learned it from God because we get a feeling.
That sounds like a scary proposition, and one I'm unwilling to accept is the revelation God gave us in the Bible and in Jesus Christ.
By the way, the Bible and Jesus Christ are two concrete interventions of God into human history by the power of the Holy Spirit. The answers to questions about these concrete interventions of God in actual history involve real answers, with actual logic and reasoning and there are evidences which include real object facts in history and in science.
Do you believe that God is a rational being, Pabrain?
God tells us in the Bible that that spirit of a man knows the thoughts of the man, and we have the spirit of Christ. Therefore when we are reading God's word, we join the Body of Christ of all ages in learning the thoughts of God the Father and God the Son -Jesus Christ.
That means not only do you or I know, but others know the same thing too. And we know what we know because God's message is consistent from Jesus to the Apostles to the Church at large (aka the Body of Christ, I'm not speaking particularly of buildings and formal organizations) and then to us through all that labor to get the message to us. Whew.
Your answer to the idea of how do we know what is true is that we have a subjective experience with the truth. It appears plain that what you are saying can be said like this: I know because it feels right to me.
You may trust God has put that feeling in you, but that feeling is the basis of what you've stated is how you know the truth.
You may not have thought of that before.
No one I know who is a Christian disputes that the things of God are discerned by those who are born of God.
That understanding does not explain how we know if anything is true.
You, Pabrain, and I have the presupposition that because God exists there are things that are true and things that are not true. There is reality and fiction/fantasy, also in a manner of speaking.
This is because God built into us certain innate qualities and capabilities. These are twisted because of sin, but as new creations Christians begin having these restored to normal function.
I do not want to bore you or insult you. I am trying to be plain.
BJThomas sang a song "I've just got this feeling...", and the Mormons say "You'll know its true because of a feeling".
We know things are true by understanding God's word by faith, within the community of faith, utilizing our God created rational minds to understand our thoughts and our feelings together.
Feelings and thoughts together, but rational thoughts in line with reality that God made.
There is a wisdom and knowledge that is beyond the imaginations of men, but that doesn't make it the result of feelings.
I could go on, but you may not wish me to. So I'll stop for now. I'm glad that God did not just leave us with the hope that what God reveals is true. That we can actually know with our minds and our spirit.
I'm not wanting to elevate rationality, I believe it all works together. But it is knowledgeable faith which is Biblical.
May God richly bless you in your study of His word and the renewing of your mind.
-your fellow suffering servant,
gregory alan
quote:
ORIGINAL: pabrain
Hi gralan.
You ask.
"how do we determine what is true".
Scripture tells you how to determine, how to know.
The Holy Spirit has to be allowed by you to reveal the truth to you.
This is clearly demonstrated by our Lord Jesus at,
Jhn 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Where Jesus tells us that adopting the attitude of "Not my will, but thine be done" enables Him to speak as He did at,
Jhn 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
Jhn 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
I would conclude from this that Christians who arrive at a wrong interpretation of Scripture, do so because they do not do what Jesus makes clear must be done, if the Spirit is to reveal truth to them.
We are not told here just how this is done, but might I with respect suggest the following.
Luk 24:32 And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?"
Bless you.
Edwin.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 12:39:39 AM
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7OFUS
Posts: 102
Joined: 11/5/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
Actually the gist is in who gets the credit. Copying one source seems to lend itself to taking the credit rightfully of another for one's self. Copying several sources is the same way unless put into your own words and thereby establishing the discussion of a principle or posting of a point. And even then, it would be plagiarism to take credit for the credit not due you.
I agree however that most do not give credit where credit is due and enjoy the implied credit.
I tend to give credit to the one it is due (even if I am remembering who it was incorrectly it is apparent it is not I) and when it's something that popped into my head I give the credit to the Holy Spirit which is what I say when asked if they can quote me I say the Holy Spirit has the copyright quote away but give him the credit.
If it's something in error I'll take the blame for my misunderstanding or obvious opinion (error).
Makes sense John.
It really was just my lame attempt to be funny 
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 1:05:21 AM
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7OFUS
Posts: 102
Joined: 11/5/2008
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: brian231
We know that unfortuanately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by pauWe know that unfortuanately some of the bible is not inspired. Literally half of the letters attributed to Paul are not written by paul. We also know that 1 and 2 Peter are not written by peter! So what exactly do you mean by "inspired"?
quote:
Assuming that what you say about works attributed to Paul and Peter being written by someone else is true (and that assumption already puts us in a very hypothetical situation), how would that tell us that any of the Bible was uninspired? There are many anonymous books in the Bible (and perhaps a few pseudepigraphic ones) that the Church and Israel have always accepted as authoritative even when their authorship has often been in question.
Specifics of human authorship do not inspiration make. The breath of God makes it. The recognition of God's breath in a work by his people make it canon. That's what the Bible is.
ninjaaron,
I agree with you that just because the author of Hebrews is disputed that doesn't mean it's uninspired.
I would say though that if letters such as Paul's and Peter's, that bear their names, are in fact not written by them then they would be false, for whoever did write them is bearing false witness and we should reject them as authoritative.
That being said I believe the entire Bible to be God-breathed
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 11:27:38 AM
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pabrain
Posts: 309
Joined: 12/19/2008
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Hi Gregory Alan.
Thank you for your lengthy post which I find most informative.
The opening words of my previous post was my shorthand way of drawing attention to the first paragraph of yours, the reading of which clearly indicates that it is not you who is asking the question.
The rest of mine was intended to supplement what you had to say on the subject.
Regarding, "feelings", I am well aware of the attendant problems, however, the example I gave was preceded by the Divine requirement to ensure the correct result.
I am also well aware that the Holy Spirit does not require human permission. Did God ask, "May I write the Bible ?".
You may feel that our Lords words at John 7:16 & 17 were only intended for His listeners at that time, and not for us now, however, the many questions I have been asked in the last 40+ years tends to indicate otherwise.
You ask,
"Do you believe that God is a rational being, Pabrain?"
If by rational you mean
1. Having or exercising the ability to reason 2. Of sound mind; sane.
Then the answer is yes.
More later, must close now due to time.
Every blessing.
Edwin.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 2:37:06 PM
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Judson50
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
How would you respond to the following? This is something that some people say when they doubt that the Bible is God's word.
If the bible is divinely inspired, why didn't it reveal something revolutionary like the cure for AIDs, the cure for cancer, the cure for the common cold? Or why couldn't have God written in the bible that the Earth revolves around the sun rather than the other way around? Not only would this cure a great amount of sickness and suffering and it would have prevented Galileo from being persecuted by the church, it would have proven the bible was undeniably the word of God by giving away revolutionary scientific knowledge that was impossible to have been achieved by people's limited understanding of the universe at the time?
It did reveal something more revolutionary than those "time bound" non-eternal issues. That is, it revealed Salvation through Jesus Christ.
The greatest "thing" we ALL need to be cured from is Sin. We are all infected by it.
_____________________________
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy Proverbs 27:6
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 5:17:30 PM
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ninjaaron
Posts: 139
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 7OFUS
ninjaaron,
I agree with you that just because the author of Hebrews is disputed that doesn't mean it's uninspired.
I would say though that if letters such as Paul's and Peter's, that bear their names, are in fact not written by them then they would be false, for whoever did write them is bearing false witness and we should reject them as authoritative.
That being said I believe the entire Bible to be God-breathed
Well, I disagree. It was a very common practice in the ancient world, particularly in the ancient Jewish world to write works with a pseudonym (as it is today), very often the in the name of a famous character from the Bible (Wisdom of Solomon, Enoch, and III and IV Ezra) are excellent examples. These are, for the most part, good and pious works (if sometimes fanciful) that tell things from the perspective of the named character. Does that make it a lie? Is it a lie if someone writes a book about George Washington told from his perspective in the first person?
I think of this kind of thing as a literary technique, not a falsehood.
I'm not saying that this happened with any of Paul or Peter's letters, but if it were somehow to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that some of them were written by others (for which I can't imagine a possible scenario), that wouldn't change my belief that God breathed into the creative process, and that he continues to breath through the words into people's lives today. The latter is abundantly obvious regardless of who wrote any of it.
Your mileage may vary, but don't worry, we can still be bro's.
_____________________________
My Bible Blog
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/28/2010 9:14:47 PM
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7OFUS
Posts: 102
Joined: 11/5/2008
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quote:
Your mileage may vary, but don't worry, we can still be bro's.
Back at ya bro  I appreciate this, no sense getting bunched up over something that didn't happen.
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagiarism.;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/29/2010 4:42:23 AM
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pabrain
Posts: 309
Joined: 12/19/2008
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Hi once More Gregory Alan.
You go on to say,
"It appears from your writing that you understand that the only way we know anything is true is because we have allowed the Holy Spirit to reveal that to us. That puts a lot of power in the hands of human beings and leaves God waiting for us to give Him permission to act. I do not believe Human beings have such power.
If you are referring to becoming a new creation in Jesus, and submitting to God's revelation of truth, as our allowing God to reveal the truth of His word to us, well I agree. But that is not what I read in your post.
You seemed sure of two things:
-----(1) God needs us to give God permission to reveal the truth to us.
-----(2) We will know we learned it from God because we get a feeling.
That sounds like a scary proposition, and one I'm unwilling to accept is the revelation God gave us in the Bible and in Jesus Christ".
Perhaps what follows will help you to understand my understanding.
May the Lord bless you and yours.
Edwin.
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When Jesus came to earth some 2000 years ago, He not only came to offer Himself as a sinless sacrifice to pay for our sins, and thus enable God to forgive as many as will accept this fact. but also to demonstrate by His life just how we humans were, and are intended by our heavenly Father to behave towards. He who made us in His own image.
By His life, I mean the attitude of, (Not My will, but thine be done), that Jesus continually adopted towards His Father, thus enabling the Father who indwelt the Son to, "do the works", see.
Jhn 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
The Father communicated Himself through the body of the man Jesus to all people with whom He came into contact at that time, and through Scripture now to us.
This is the reason why you, if you are a Christian are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, in order that you might allow the other resident within yourself to have right of way in your life, and to do just what He wants to do in and through you.
Remember Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father", Jhn 14:7, " If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.".. Not that the Father is a human being, Jesus is here referring to conduct and behavior, that is,what He the Father did, and what He the Father said, see Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,* who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Jesus also said,
Jhn 15:3 "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
Jhn 15:4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Jhn 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Note "without Me you can do nothing"
Why do you suppose that Paul said
Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Phl 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain
Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which* is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Gal 4:19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,
There is only one person in this whole universe who can live the Christian life to perfection,,, that person lives inside you, and that's why Jesus said what He said at,
John 5:19. John 5:30, John 11:41b - 42, John 14:7-10, and also what is said about Him at Acts 2:22.
Ask Him in prayer, why He did things this way, and He will tell you as He told me many years ago, "Because it's the only way you can do it".
May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe.
Edwin.
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RE: Questioning the Bible's divine inspiration - 7/29/2010 4:45:50 AM
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pabrain
Posts: 309
Joined: 12/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
I am convinced that a proper understanding of divine inspiration must do credit to God's making us new creations in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Divine inspiration has often been only contemplated in terms of the message God provides. However, I'm absolutely convinced that the Bible teaches us enough for us to know that we must be given the equipment to receive the inspired messages.
Through new creation we are restored to spiritual life, and with that we now have the ability to readily begin receiving God's message to His people through the person and work of Jesus Christ and the Holy Scripture.
We know we are His Children if we seek to be pleasing to God. We know we are of the truth if we walk in His light. We know we are of sound mind if we do not go beyond what is written.
Praise be to Him who gives us what we receive. Selah! (really now, take some time and think about that.) 
Amen
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