|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:28:01 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:32:41 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
While not scripture, the old hymn says it well:
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.
Looks to me like the hymn writer is doing something, i.e., "wholly trust in Jesus' name." So, I guess Jesus plus trust in His name is OK.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:34:17 AM
|
|
|
Restored_Heart
Posts: 532
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
I can be married to the one I love - I am married and if my spouse is perfect (as God is) in his love for me - he will love me no matter how I act. BUT if I truly love my spouse, I should WANT to do good things for them. I am married whether or not I do these good things, and these actions, since my husband is perfect, will not earn his love or keep him married to me. BUT if I do, the marriage is so much better.
So if someone is married and they don't want to do good things for their spouse, does that mean they were never married in the first place? Because that's what "Jesus only" people say. They say that evidence, fruits, works, or whatever you want to call it, are not required for salvation but that if there is no evidence, fruits, works, or whatever, then that person was never really saved in the first place. When people say things like that it makes me think that evidence, fruits, works, or whatever, are necessary for salvation. Sorry, but that's just how it looks to me.
I said it was imperfect 
But look at it this way (using a Biblical perspective)
The woman was incapable of setting up the marriage covenant.
Also, most times women were unable to end the covenant.
But I could go around claiming to be married and I am not. I could do good things for that "spouse" that I am not married to, but it wouldn't make me married - even if people think I am.
Only the courts (and God) would know if I was actually married or not.
Now, from the other perspective, if I were married and did nothing.... it would be up to the husband to keep up the marriage. Just like Hosea and Gomer - he decided to be the covenant keeper.
_____________________________
It not that I don't think that the health care system needs reformation, but with the Gov't's track record, I fear that it will be like trying to sculpt a statute of my great-grandmother by using a shotgun.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:36:53 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
That or someone must interpret scripture correctly, discerning the literal from symbolic aspects. There is one baptism and that is rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him. It isn't a magical dip in a baptismal pool.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:38:34 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
I said it was imperfect
Yes, you did 
quote:
But look at it this way (using a Biblical perspective)
The woman was incapable of setting up the marriage covenant.
Also, most times women were unable to end the covenant.
But I could go around claiming to be married and I am not. I could do good things for that "spouse" that I am not married to, but it wouldn't make me married - even if people think I am.
Only the courts (and God) would know if I was actually married or not.
Now, from the other perspective, if I were married and did nothing.... it would be up to the husband to keep up the marriage. Just like Hosea and Gomer - he decided to be the covenant keeper.
So, even if I do nothing after I'm saved, I would still be saved, because it is up to God to be the keeper of my salvation? Seems not quite right to me, somehow.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:40:44 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
While not scripture, the old hymn says it well:
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.
Looks to me like the hymn writer is doing something, i.e., "wholly trust in Jesus' name." So, I guess Jesus plus trust in His name is OK.
The writer is doing nothing to complete God the Son's works or assist God in obtaining salvation. He certainly isn't going to a river, stream, or baptismal pool and walking into the water to be lowered and words spoken over him. The writer trusts without moving a muscle or uttering a word. And notice the word "wholly".
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:43:57 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
That or someone must interpret scripture correctly, discerning the literal from symbolic aspects. There is one baptism and that is rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him. It isn't a magical dip in a baptismal pool.
You are correct, it isn't a magical dip in a baptismal pool. But everything else you mentioned -- rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him occurs when we are baptized according to Scripture. I didn't get baptized to get saved. I got baptized because God said to.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:44:36 AM
|
|
|
Restored_Heart
Posts: 532
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
Also, baptism can be looked at like a wedding ring. It is an outward symbol of an inner condition. I can be married, but not wear a ring. BUT since I am married I want people to know it KWIM? Also it can also act as a reminder to me and everyone else that I am "taken."
_____________________________
It not that I don't think that the health care system needs reformation, but with the Gov't's track record, I fear that it will be like trying to sculpt a statute of my great-grandmother by using a shotgun.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:45:14 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
So, even if I do nothing after I'm saved, I would still be saved, because it is up to God to be the keeper of my salvation? Seems not quite right to me, somehow.
Of course it doesn't seem right. Every religion except Christianity approaches salvation from what seems right: salvation earned and kept by man's help. i.e. works.
That is why God's grace is so amazing and why it feels so lacking to the natural mind.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:46:48 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
The writer is doing nothing to complete God the Son's works or assist God in obtaining salvation. He certainly isn't going to a river, stream, or baptismal pool and walking into the water to be lowered and words spoken over him. The writer trusts without moving a muscle or uttering a word. And notice the word "wholly".
Nevertheless the writer is doing something. Besides, would salvation occur if he didn't "wholly trust in Jesus name?" I don't think so.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:47:57 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
...But everything else you mentioned -- rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him occurs when we are baptized according to Scripture. I didn't get baptized to get saved. I got baptized because God said to.
Wrong.
If I hadn't been saved before baptism there would have been no point in going into the water. I'd gone in a dry sinner and came out a wet sinner, with perhaps the false notion that the work of going through water baptism assured me of anything.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:49:41 AM
|
|
|
neuronstatic
Posts: 1385
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
Actually no, I am correct. If you disagree with me, cite specific Scripture references that say baptism is required. Otherwise, you are stating your opinion only.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:50:16 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Of course it doesn't seem right. Every religion except Christianity approaches salvation from what seems right: salvation earned and kept by man's help. i.e. works.
That is why God's grace is so amazing and why it feels so lacking to the natural mind.
Look, I'm not discounting God's grace. I'm just not convinced the God's grace operates in a vacuum.
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:50:18 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3384
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I have complete freedom of will within reasonable limits, but no "good" things that I do or don't do contribute a whit to my eternal destiny. Only God Incarnate could/can accomplish that for you, me, or anyone else. So, if HE died to cover all sins of all mankind for all eternity (which seems to be supported by the fact that HE is not willing for any to perish but wants all to come to repentance) AND IF salvation requires nothing from us then everyone for all history is already saved.
That does not square with scripture at all.
_____________________________
Saphira went home from the hospital 11/2/11. She is VERY happy to be home. This pic was taken on her 4th birthday, just after another round of outpatient chemo.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:51:41 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
The writer is doing nothing to complete God the Son's works or assist God in obtaining salvation. He certainly isn't going to a river, stream, or baptismal pool and walking into the water to be lowered and words spoken over him. The writer trusts without moving a muscle or uttering a word. And notice the word "wholly".
Nevertheless the writer is doing something. Besides, would salvation occur if he didn't "wholly trust in Jesus name?" I don't think so.
You are grasping. The writer does no work, he trusts wholly in the only works of any value - those of Jesus Christ.
A completely paralyzed man in an iron lung can trust in Jesus for salvation. He would have to be able to at least move under his own to be baptized.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:54:37 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
Also, baptism can be looked at like a wedding ring. It is an outward symbol of an inner condition. I can be married, but not wear a ring. BUT since I am married I want people to know it KWIM? Also it can also act as a reminder to me and everyone else that I am "taken."
That's a good analogy. The only hole I find in it is that baptism is a command from God and therefore necessary but wearing a wedding ring is a tradition and therefore optional. Seventh Day Adventists, for example do not wear wedding rings (at least that used to be the case. I haven't been around any for years, now).
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:57:01 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
Actually no, I am correct. If you disagree with me, cite specific Scripture references that say baptism is required. Otherwise, you are stating your opinion only.
If I give specific Scripture references will you address them?
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:58:13 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 12141
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I have complete freedom of will within reasonable limits, but no "good" things that I do or don't do contribute a whit to my eternal destiny. Only God Incarnate could/can accomplish that for you, me, or anyone else. So, if HE died to cover all sins of all mankind for all eternity (which seems to be supported by the fact that HE is not willing for any to perish but wants all to come to repentance) AND IF salvation requires nothing from us then everyone for all history is already saved.
That does not square with scripture at all.
It squares with scriptural Grace. Before salvation, it is God who calls us and provides the only remedy - no good work of ours can help our condition. After salvation, God provides the ability needed to persevere:
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
-Philippians 2:13
We never have reason to boast before God, before or after salvation.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:58:58 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
The writer is doing nothing to complete God the Son's works or assist God in obtaining salvation. He certainly isn't going to a river, stream, or baptismal pool and walking into the water to be lowered and words spoken over him. The writer trusts without moving a muscle or uttering a word. And notice the word "wholly".
Nevertheless the writer is doing something. Besides, would salvation occur if he didn't "wholly trust in Jesus name?" I don't think so.
You are grasping. The writer does no work, he trusts wholly in the only works of any value - those of Jesus Christ.
A completely paralyzed man in an iron lung can trust in Jesus for salvation. He would have to be able to at least move under his own to be baptized.
Grasping or not, trusting in Jesus is still doing something. Even if its only mental. You're not saying that mental effort is not work, are you?
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 8:59:28 AM
|
|
|
neuronstatic
Posts: 1385
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
That or someone must interpret scripture correctly, discerning the literal from symbolic aspects. There is one baptism and that is rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him. It isn't a magical dip in a baptismal pool.
You are correct, it isn't a magical dip in a baptismal pool. But everything else you mentioned -- rebirth, regeneration, Jesus raising us from spiritual death unto a new life in Him occurs when we are baptized according to Scripture. I didn't get baptized to get saved. I got baptized because God said to.
So are you saying Christ experienced rebirth, regeneration and raising from spiritual death? Christ was baptized. Was it a changing experience? Or was it a symbol of something.
Scriptures say baptism is the new circumcision. Were you circumcised before or after you were saved? Or was it a symbol of something?
Scriptures also refer to baptism as a symbol of the death and resurrection of Christ? Why? Not because it is a requirement, but it is a symbol of how though we were once dead, we were raised in new life. It is God that does this when He saves us through Christ's work on the cross.
Don't confuse symbolism with direction.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 9:00:28 AM
|
|
|
neuronstatic
Posts: 1385
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
I read a post in this thread that indicated baptism was required for salvation. First of all, that is non-Scriptural. Now that I have stated that fact, I can continue.
In order for your statement to be true, i.e., that baptism for salvation is non-scriptural, all the verses in Scripture that address baptism either have to be ignored or else baptism has to be redefined to mean something that it didn't mean when God included it in Scripture.
Actually no, I am correct. If you disagree with me, cite specific Scripture references that say baptism is required. Otherwise, you are stating your opinion only.
If I give specific Scripture references will you address them?
Absolutely. Every single one. With full exegesis and analysis.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 9:05:15 AM
|
|
|
neuronstatic
Posts: 1385
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I have complete freedom of will within reasonable limits, but no "good" things that I do or don't do contribute a whit to my eternal destiny. Only God Incarnate could/can accomplish that for you, me, or anyone else. So, if HE died to cover all sins of all mankind for all eternity (which seems to be supported by the fact that HE is not willing for any to perish but wants all to come to repentance) AND IF salvation requires nothing from us then everyone for all history is already saved.
That does not square with scripture at all.
No Dave. Not everyone throughout history, but only those whom God saves. It is His will and His will alone. Reading from OT to NT the reference to the "remnant" is a repeated thing. God has preserved His people in the remnant that believe, but not every single person. For all have sinned and fallen short. None are good. But God has of His perfect will saved those whom He has called to be His own. And no creature is ever greater than the Creator and thus no one, no thing, can usurp God's will and authority.
Some are saved, many are not. My response is thanksgiving to God that He has seen fit to call me His child.
Edited to add the following:
It is not God's will that any should perish. Would that be His will then they would. But to say it is not His will that any should perish is not a logical equivalent to say "it is His will that all should be saved." In fact, that is never said. So I don't know where anyone could ever reconcile an all-powerful God that wills every one saved and yet He would be thwarted by the actions of a mere mortal man for they are surely not all saved, and He clearly says not everyone is.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 9:09:40 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 2159
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Coffee County, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: neuronstatic
So are you saying Christ experienced rebirth, regeneration and raising from spiritual death? Christ was baptized. Was it a changing experience? Or was it a symbol of something. In Christ's case it was a symbol of something. But Jesus' baptism is not our baptism. Totally different in both meaning and purpose.
quote:
Scriptures say baptism is the new circumcision. Were you circumcised before or after you were saved? Or was it a symbol of something? Neither before nor after but rather when. And of course it was a symbol of something. It certainly wasn't literal.
quote:
Scriptures also refer to baptism as a symbol of the death and resurrection of Christ? Why? Not because it is a requirement, but it is a symbol of how though we were once dead, we were raised in new life. It is God that does this when He saves us through Christ's work on the cross. I agree with you here. However, I do believe that we are literally raised to new life when we are raised out of the waters of baptism. Sure its symbolic, too.
quote:
Don't confuse symbolism with direction.
OK
_____________________________
<<< me, leading the ABC song during VBS
greatdivide46
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, 'I am only joking!'". Proverbs 26:18-19
|
|
|
|
|
RE: JESUS PLUS SOMETHING ELSE? - 4/16/2010 9:10:41 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3384
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychusquote:
ORIGINAL: DaveWquote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I have complete freedom of will within reasonable limits, but no "good" things that I do or don't do contribute a whit to my eternal destiny. Only God Incarnate could/can accomplish that for you, me, or anyone else. So, if HE died to cover all sins of all mankind for all eternity (which seems to be supported by the fact that HE is not willing for any to perish but wants all to come to repentance) AND IF salvation requires nothing from us then everyone for all history is already saved.
That does not square with scripture at all. It squares with scriptural Grace. Before salvation, it is God who calls us and provides the only remedy - no good work of ours can help our condition. After salvation, God provides the ability needed to persevere:
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
-Philippians 2:13
We never have reason to boast before God, before or after salvation. Did you read what I wrote? Taking what you said to a logical end means that everyone is already saved. There is no need for evangelism.
As I said before, that does not square with scripture.
From another thread; quoted because it seems to fit this discussion as well:quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychusquote:
Those who don't know what the Bible teaches about salvation cannot be saved. I agree. So now you are saying that it is Jesus PLUS an understanding of the biblical doctrines concerning salvation?
_____________________________
Saphira went home from the hospital 11/2/11. She is VERY happy to be home. This pic was taken on her 4th birthday, just after another round of outpatient chemo.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
