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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/12/2010 7:14:29 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
If he is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I can tell you he is a member of a cultic heresy that actively works against the Kingdom of your Lord (and mine).
And you can make the blanket statement that every person in the Word sho attends the Mormon Church is an AntiChirst and lost?
I think that is a streatch.
And actually whether Beck is a born again Christian or not is a moot point the advice to leave a Church, any Church, that promotes Social Justice Theology, Revolution Theologyis good advice.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/12/2010 8:57:24 PM
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wyattdolan
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Man, most of you guys seem pretty nice, but a few of the people on this forum just confirm my fears about Christianity. When Christian turns on Christian simply because of a difference in interpretation or politics, then our common Enemy wins.
And guess what, THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENCES IN CHRISTIANITY, from interpretations of the same Bible, to slightly different Bibles, to fundamental beliefs. For goodness's sake, Protestantism and all of the sects that came from it is based on a challenge of one interpretation of the Bible from another.
It seems like some of the people here just can't love their own brothers-in-Christ and treat each other with respect. It's a real shame.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/12/2010 9:10:46 PM
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wing2000
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Imagine if some commentator from one of those liberal networks stated that if your paster advocates pro-life positions from the pulpet, you should leave that church....and then go on to compare such churches with with some extreme ideology such a Communism.
The commentator would justifiably be denounced.
It's no different in this case.
Churches who take a stand against economic and political injustice are following scripture. There are hundreds of verses in the Bible that speak to this very issue.
The Church must stand up for those who have no voice...whether it be the unborn child or the child dieing from starvation.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 12:36:29 AM
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climbingforchrist
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This is my first time posting on this site.
I have been lurking for a long time and felt compelled to post.
Number 1:
First off Glenn Beck is not even a Christian. He is a Mormon for crying out loud. He is just trying to pander to his base. Mormonism is not the Jesus of the bible. "They preach a different gospel"
Number 2:
It is not EITHER OR, IT IS BOTH AND. Jesus teaches us to teach the gospel and love the poor. What do you define as social justice? It is a fine line. I am sure there were many during the 1700s who thought that abolition of slavery was social justice.
Social Justice can be a good thing, if it is worked in conjunction WITH the gospel message.
Number 3:
Stop using the Gospel to advance your own political agenda. Doesn't matter if you are REPUBLICAN, or DEMOCRAT.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 12:46:14 AM
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climbingforchrist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
But not if they teach you that you will become a god through works?
You're being biased because of the man's politics.
Can you give an absolute guarentee that Beck is not saved (indwelt by the Holy Spirit).
And if you think you can, please tell what you base that opinion on.
Thanks
RC
Do you really think someone in dwelt with the Holy Spirit would really be in the Mormon Church? There are plenty of muslims to who believe Jesus is a good man. Mormonism clearly teaches that Christ is one of many little gods.
RC I like you, but really you seem to confuse politics with God to much.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 12:53:57 AM
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Saltlight_2188
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Awesome first post, Climbing! I certainly hope you stick around and continue to speak the truth in love!
_____________________________
Lisa Lisa
Mercy triumphs over judgment
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 3:16:32 AM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And you can make the blanket statement that every person in the Word sho attends the Mormon Church is an AntiChirst and lost?
I think that is a streatch.
But you and Glen Beck can proclaim equal judgements about people who believe in Social Justice?
Social Justice- mixing religion with politics to try and achieve far reaching benefits for the poor.
Mormonism- lies, heresy, and stuff you find in a sewage plant. EVIL.
Just a refresher for those of you not up on the false beliefs they espouse:
God was once a flesh and blood man and ascended to God. We are co-eternal with God and that Jesus died not to save those who will accept his salvation, but to grant universal deification to all humans. We will all be gods thanks to Mormon Jesus.
Now, we'll all be God in the afterlife, but if you want to have a really good set up, you have to do all manner of good works. (sure this results in nice people, but that doesn't make it orthodox)
Also, in Eden, apparently God gave Adam and Eve conflicting orders (don't eat the fruit and multiply) and to fulfill one they had to violate the other. God set us up to sin.
Grandpa wasn't a believer? Don't worry, you can get baptized in his place! All kinds of ceremonies are available for the dead.
Oh, and remember when Jesus said that we would not be given in marriage after death? Forget that, the Mormon family unit is the center of God's plan for the world: Temple Marriages that bind people together for all eternity, living on your own planet with your family once you die and become a god, etc.
The teachings of Mormonism fly in the face of the Scriptures. If someone accepts all this, accepts that Christ had to earn his own salvation, that God was a man before the world was made, that you and I will be divine in the afterlife... where is Christ's truth in them? Where is his salvation in such a person? If Glen Beck falls into this category, then I can easily say he's not a Christian. He's a Mormon. Mutually exclusive terms, even if the Mormons bandy around the name Jesus. He said Himself that many would say "Lord, Lord" and He'd say "I never knew you".
quote:
And actually whether Beck is a born again Christian or not is a moot point the advice to leave a Church, any Church, that promotes Social Justice Theology, Revolution Theologyis good advice.
Sorry, but people this entrenched in heresy are not credible when it comes to spiritual things. They are liars and agents of the devil inasmuch as they are trying to lure people away from the truth: Jesus is Lord and the only hope of salvation for any of us. His instructions to Christians to leave their churches are an attack.
You can agree with the man politically, but you just don't have a leg to stand on in this: if Glen Beck claims all the Mormon doctrines, then he's a heretic, flat out.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 6:17:24 AM
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climbingforchrist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
quote:
And actually whether Beck is a born again Christian or not is a moot point the advice to leave a Church, any Church, that promotes Social Justice Theology, Revolution Theologyis good advice.
Sorry, but people this entrenched in heresy are not credible when it comes to spiritual things. They are liars and agents of the devil inasmuch as they are trying to lure people away from the truth: Jesus is Lord and the only hope of salvation for any of us. His instructions to Christians to leave their churches are an attack.
You can agree with the man politically, but you just don't have a leg to stand on in this: if Glen Beck claims all the Mormon doctrines, then he's a heretic, flat out.
Great response. The fact that Glen Beck (not even a born again Christian) tells non Mormons to leave their churches is an attack of Satan if you ask me. Where does he want them to go? Probably the Church of LDS.
The enemy loves to distort truth by adding lies. This is exactly what the mormon church has done.
And as I have pointed out early, I do not see how promoting social justice flies in the face of the gospel. God cares about social issues.
As far as I am concerned abortion is a social justice issue. So is human trafficking, sex slavery and many other issues. The problem comes when Christians begin thinking that Social Justice can be achieved without preaching the gospel as well.
I do have a problem however when people with a political agenda attempt to use the church for their own personal gain. Very twisted and sick theology.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 8:57:52 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
Imagine if some commentator from one of those liberal networks stated that if your paster advocates pro-life positions from the pulpet, you should leave that church....and then go on to compare such churches with with some extreme ideology such a Communism.
The commentator would justifiably be denounced.
It's no different in this case.
Oh I think there is a difference between advocating the murder of unborn children, and the promotion of communism.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 9:00:57 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: climbingforchrist
Do you really think someone in dwelt with the Holy Spirit would really be in the Mormon Church? There are plenty of muslims to who believe Jesus is a good man. Mormonism clearly teaches that Christ is one of many little gods.
RC I like you, but really you seem to confuse politics with God to much.
Yes I do, and have two families in my Church that were indwelt by the Holy Spirit that were in the Mormon Church for many years before coming out.
Are you saying that anyone that is not sitting in a pew of a Chruch you deem to be correct cannot find and know the Saving power of Jesus Christ.
Are you sure you want to put that limitation on God?
And politics has nothing to do with it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 9:10:41 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3509
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And politics has nothing to do with it.
Then why the stark contrast between your attitudes towards Beck's faith and Obama's?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 9:39:56 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And politics has nothing to do with it.
Then why the stark contrast between your attitudes towards Beck's faith and Obama's?
I have never claimed that Obama was not what he claims he is (whatever that may be at the moment).
A person could find the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ even in a non-Scriptural hell hole like the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
As far as individuals, I go along with what Jesus Christ said;
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 11:44:09 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think Glen Beck's own church isn't too happy with him either:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/12justice.html
First the artical says nothing about the Morman being upset about Beck, nothing.
The artical you refer is from THIS which is supposedly a Christian site ran by a Pastor, but in reality is a social justice, revolutionary theology, income redistribution blog; the exact kind Beck was saying we are to avoid.
It only takes a couple of minutes to look at the site which is full of fixing the word's social injustices (as they see them), and nothing about Christ, evangelism or Scripture.
Go Figure.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 11:45:08 AM
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davelinde
Posts: 1006
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think Glen Beck's own church isn't too happy with him either:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/12justice.html
He's getting attention though,and I'll bet HE is happy about that and I bet it's the reason he made the statement in the first place.
Honestly I don't find it all that upsetting when it gives guys like Al Mohler the chance to go on camera and note there is a valid reason for churches to be involved in society and justice.
I may be imposing my own understanding on Beck (honestly I did not really watch him or listen until I heard about him on these forums... and I still don't watch him often). I have seen churches get more interested in social justice than the gospel and I suppose in some places it could be a "code word". It's probably a pretty lame blanket statement. Still (even before Beck) if I was in a church that put a priority on "social justice" I would ask "what does that mean".
In one case (a church I did not attend) I got in a chat with a pastor. He basically said that Jesus FIRST taught we are to care for our fellow man and that only if we show a concern and care can we then have the right to present the Gospel. Then, on pushing he noted that Jesus is not REALLY the only way (just "our" way) but that God ALWAYS rewards our care for others (it's one of the two summary commands after all).
I'm not saying everyone teaches this... just that it's always wise to ask.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 12:20:14 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4249
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think Glen Beck's own church isn't too happy with him either:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/12justice.html
First the artical says nothing about the Morman being upset about Beck, nothing.
The artical you refer is from THIS which is supposedly a Christian site ran by a Pastor, but in reality is a social justice, revolutionary theology, income redistribution blog; the exact kind Beck was saying we are to avoid.
It only takes a couple of minutes to look at the site which is full of fixing the word's social injustices (as they see them), and nothing about Christ, evangelism or Scripture.
Go Figure.
Thanks
RC
I've never seen that blog before. So no, I wasn't referring to it.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 12:51:51 PM
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jazzact13
Posts: 732
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This is something I wrote a few months ago, reposted here by permission from myself.
I do not believe in "Social Justice"
quote:
Why aren't more Christians involved in social justice? Are we callous and uncaring? We don't think so. We can both learn and do
Ken and Deborah Loyd, in the book An Emergent Manifesto of Hope, p. 272
First, there is the question "What is social justice?" That's probably one of the concepts emergents and others who use it aren't likely to define very well. If you look back a few months, you'll see where in Tony Jones' book "The New Christians", he relates how in one emergent church a woman was wearing a t-shirt saying she was a straight woman for gay rights because her Bible teaches social justice.
quote:
Journey doesn't have an "official statement" about homosexuality, but there's obviously enough freedom in the community for Courtney to wear her beliefs on her shirt.
Courtney's shirt.
Straight Chrisitians for Gay Rights
(My Bible Teaches Social Justice)
Tony Jones, The New Christians, pp. 198, 197
Perhaps we aren't involved in social justice, because we can see through the rhetoric of social justice, and know what it is--a thin veil behind which leftist policies and politics are pushed.
Social justice seems to be about the legalizing of sexual immorality. It's also seems to be about the enforced silence of those who teach the Bible's stand on such immorality.
Social justice seems to be about punishing some crimes more than others because of perceived "hate" involved, even when unproven (one may almost say 'especially when unproven').
Social justice seems to be about the redistribution of wealth through socialistic economical policies.
Social justice seems to be about scaring people into being "green", despite the evidence against any such thing as global warming.
Social justice seems to be about going into histronics over deaths in war, while either downplaying over even supporting the many more who die in abortion.
I do not believe in social justice. I do, however, believe in justice. And I believe in compassion.
I do not believe that practicing theft through socialism will solve the plight of the poor. To borrow a quote I read in a comic book, "Communism is the equal distribution of poverty". To try to equalize the field (except for a handful of elites at the top who will find reasons to give themselves special privileges, which is one thing that happened in Soviet Russia), will only result in all being poor, and none being really helped. And there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred.
I do not believe that justice demands that we recognize and legitimize sexual immorality. If anything, justice and compassion demands that we call these things the sins they are.
I do not believe that justice demands that we cave in to environmental fearmongers, especially when truth of their claims is being questioned, and when there is such an obvious political agenda behind it.
In regards to how we are to care for the poor, there are things taught in the Bible that should be of help in how to properly do so.
It may be strange that Paul tells the Thessalonians to NOT help some among them who had stopped working and were only idling their time waiting for Jesus to return. He says they should get back to their work.
It may seem strange that Paul tells another church to be wary of what widows they should help and support.
It may seem strange that one can see things in Proverbs that don't seem very kind about some kinds of poor people.
It may seem strange that it's in the Bible that we find the phrase "If a man will not work, neither shall he eat".
It may seem strange that we aren't told that the Samaritan who found the guy left for dead didn't return home, find a few likeminded people, and start wandering the highways and byways looking for people left along the road, robbed or otherwise in ill fortune. He helped one man who was on his way, as he was about his own business.
I know that there are things said about helping the needy, I'm not making an exhaustive list here. But I'm saying the issue is more complex than many emergents seem to want to accept.
They also seem to think that because Christians don't do things their way, then they aren't doing them. They likely don't recognize that there are Christians who give when they have the opportunities, whose generosity takes many forms, who do things quietly and with their eyes open.
_____________________________
The ACORN doesn't fall far from the "O"ak
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 1:11:12 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3509
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
Perhaps we aren't involved in social justice, because we can see through the rhetoric of social justice, and know what it is--a thin veil behind which leftist policies and politics are pushed.
Social justice seems to be about the legalizing of sexual immorality. It's also seems to be about the enforced silence of those who teach the Bible's stand on such immorality.
Social justice seems to be about punishing some crimes more than others because of perceived "hate" involved, even when unproven (one may almost say 'especially when unproven').
Social justice seems to be about the redistribution of wealth through socialistic economical policies.
Social justice seems to be about scaring people into being "green", despite the evidence against any such thing as global warming.
Social justice seems to be about going into histronics over deaths in war, while either downplaying over even supporting the many more who die in abortion.
I do not believe in social justice. I do, however, believe in justice. And I believe in compassion.
I do not believe that practicing theft through socialism will solve the plight of the poor. To borrow a quote I read in a comic book, "Communism is the equal distribution of poverty". To try to equalize the field (except for a handful of elites at the top who will find reasons to give themselves special privileges, which is one thing that happened in Soviet Russia), will only result in all being poor, and none being really helped. And there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred.
I do not believe that justice demands that we recognize and legitimize sexual immorality. If anything, justice and compassion demands that we call these things the sins they are.
I do not believe that justice demands that we cave in to environmental fearmongers, especially when truth of their claims is being questioned, and when there is such an obvious political agenda behind it.
You've replaced Christian doctrine with Republican politics.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 2:05:04 PM
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StephK
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I've been reading up over at Pyromaniacs, a theology/apologetics blog and came across this post about The Lie of Liberal Theology with a link to an excellent group of articles from 9Marks that deals with this topic from a theological point of view.
_____________________________
Stephanie
A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones. ~~Proverbs 14:30 NIV~~
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 2:12:08 PM
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climbingforchrist
Posts: 7
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And politics has nothing to do with it.
Then why the stark contrast between your attitudes towards Beck's faith and Obama's?
I have never claimed that Obama was not what he claims he is (whatever that may be at the moment).
A person could find the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ even in a non-Scriptural hell hole like the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
As far as individuals, I go along with what Jesus Christ said;
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Thanks
RC
But you continue to use a double standard based on your own political views.
And what about the fruit of mormonism? So they are good people who do good works. That does not mean anything. Their good works are dead. Just like those of Islam, new agers, and any other faith. The mormon faith is clearly in error just like Islam, and many other religions.
You cannot have it both ways.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 5:43:32 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 8201
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think Glen Beck's own church isn't too happy with him either:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/12justice.html
First the artical says nothing about the Morman being upset about Beck, nothing.
The artical you refer is from THIS which is supposedly a Christian site ran by a Pastor, but in reality is a social justice, revolutionary theology, income redistribution blog; the exact kind Beck was saying we are to avoid.
It only takes a couple of minutes to look at the site which is full of fixing the word's social injustices (as they see them), and nothing about Christ, evangelism or Scripture.
Go Figure.
Thanks
RC
I've never seen that blog before. So no, I wasn't referring to it.
Read the aritlcle you posted it linked to the site for proof text of what they were saying.
Sneaky little liberal progressive bomb thowers, huh?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 5:48:27 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 8201
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
I agree with your great granddad. Very similar to something I once saw in a CS Lewis essay. Did Lewis ever get to OK?
I doubt that my great grandfather ever read C.S. Lewis, he leared to read with the Pilgrims Progress, and mentions no other reading in his memiors sans the Bible and the Occasional newspaper.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 7:48:32 PM
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jazzact13
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quote:
You've replaced Christian doctrine with Republican politics.
An essentially meaningless comment. Perhaps you should elaborate.
_____________________________
The ACORN doesn't fall far from the "O"ak
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/13/2010 8:05:38 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3509
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
quote:
You've replaced Christian doctrine with Republican politics.
An essentially meaningless comment. Perhaps you should elaborate.
With the exception of "legalizing sexual immorality," every one of your beefs with "social justice" stems from an adherence to Republican political beliefs, not Biblical doctrine.
quote:
Social justice seems to be about punishing some crimes more than others because of perceived "hate" involved, even when unproven (one may almost say 'especially when unproven').
Social justice seems to be about the redistribution of wealth through socialistic economical policies.
Social justice seems to be about scaring people into being "green", despite the evidence against any such thing as global warming.
Social justice seems to be about going into histronics over deaths in war, while either downplaying over even supporting the many more who die in abortion.
That's nothing but conservative Republican talking points.
Maybe my church doesn't do "social justice" as liberally as others - we're not unitarians, we don't support abortion, and we don't fly rainbow flags. But we do care for the poor and we are concerned about diversity and unity.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Glen Beck: "...leave your church" - 3/14/2010 9:58:56 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 8201
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: jazzact13
Social justice seems to be about punishing some crimes more than others because of perceived "hate" involved, even when unproven (one may almost say 'especially when unproven').
Social justice seems to be about the redistribution of wealth through socialistic economical policies.
Social justice seems to be about scaring people into being "green", despite the evidence against any such thing as global warming.
Social justice seems to be about going into histronics over deaths in war, while either downplaying over even supporting the many more who die in abortion.
That's nothing but conservative Republican talking points.
They may be but they are the truth no matter where they come from.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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