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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/28/2009 3:19:16 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
I think many don't think it's sexual, but it can be. I think many times for men and women, it's just not sexual. I don't think it's a refusal to admit, but you can't FORCE people to think something is sexual when they don't see it how you do. <shrugs>
I think women in here have different ways of thinking about it...probably men as well.
I just don't get how it's NOT sexual? Even my highly secular psych books consider it a sexual act.
I, for one, am not debating on whether its sexual or not. I am, however, adamant about some declaring themselves to be speaking for God and say that it is sin. When in the Word, God has told us what pleases or displeases Him. Reiterating, if they are not using devices, mags, books, internet, fantasizing, it is between them and God not any human being who thinks that they know what they are talking about.
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/28/2009 3:36:44 PM
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solo_soprano
Posts: 1287
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I think the sexual vs. non-sexual debate is useless in this particular discussion, mainly because it doesn't matter and we'll disagree (it's not really important in determining the right- or wrongness of the activity itself, when all you have to do is look at the activity and the person doing it and evaluate it Biblically). I don't even feel like debating a term and going in a circle, but others can, if it's important to them. :) Perhaps if it became an addiction or if one started using the internet or pornography (couldn't stay away from aides of some kind, including fantasy), yes, it would be sinful for that person. I can't say that mastubation is inherently a sin-- it is what the person makes it.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/28/2009 3:47:06 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
I think the sexual vs. non-sexual debate is useless in this particular discussion, mainly because it doesn't matter and we'll disagree (it's not really important in determining the right- or wrongness of the activity itself, when all you have to do is look at the activity and the person doing it and evaluate it Biblically). I don't even feel like debating a term and going in a circle, but others can, if it's important to them. :) Perhaps if it became an addiction or if one started using the internet or pornography (couldn't stay away from aides of some kind, including fantasy), yes, it would be sinful for that person. I can't say that mastubation is inherently a sin-- it is what the person makes it.
I agree, Solo.
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/28/2009 9:17:30 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 2235
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
I don't think anyone here is arguing the extreme you are - at least most of us aren't. What we are arguing is to take this to Scripture and Scripture does not call it a sin, so I will not. Scripture is my authority not tradition or "church psychology" (which is just as bad as secular psychology in my opinion). Period. The extreme that I am? That masturbation is a sexual act (as classified by secular psychologists, doctors, etc)? I don't do "church" psychology. I do stand by Scripture, which calls us to throw off ALL sexual immorality and to not give in to carnal (physical) desires outside of the proscribed areas where they are acceptable (in this case...marriage).
Yes, Scripture does call us to throw off ALL sexual immorality. The problem here is that masturbation is not once mentioned in Scripture as being sexually immoral. In addition, which Scripture says that the only place one should ever experience sexual arousal is in marriage? My Bible only says not to lust or to have sex with [insert long list here]. The Bible does not speak to sexual arousal - aside from wet dreams and such which apparently magically make sexual arousal outside of marriage ok.
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There are women in this thread who refuse to admit, regardless, that masturbation is in ANY WAY sexual.....that the need for orgasm is anything but sexual.......
I have not argued that so please don't box me in to trying to argue that with you.
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I can choose to indulge my physical need for orgasm by masturbating, OR I can choose to actively pursue something else at that time...what that something else is will depend on the person and what best distracts them from the driving need to have an orgasm. I can choose to NOT indulge my carnal nature by seeking out activities that get my eyes off of me.
It is a choice, but again, Scripture does not say that choice is inherently sinful. For many, it is. For others, I'm not convinced and I still can find no Scripture that says so. Period.
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The only problem with that is simply this.....masturbation is a sexual act. SO I use a sexual act to avoid sexual sin? How is that avoiding the sin?
I am just substituting something for the actual act.....not avoiding sin at all.
The problem with your argument here is that you are basing it on the assumption that sexual arousal, even if manually stimulated, is always a sin unless you are with your spouse. And yet, Scripture doesn't say that. Scripture gives us some big long lists of those folks & things we are not to be carnal with, but again, it never says carnal is inherently sinful. In fact, it isn't!
Folks throughout history actually used to use the same arguments used here against masturbation to argue why sex is only for procreation and never for intimacy. Afterall, carnal is a bad word right? And sex is carnal?
Which of course means that the carnal response in a wet dream is bad as well because of course, the mind is responding carnally. And a child who plays with themself is sinning because that normal exploration is done to feed carnal sensations?
Do you see where this leads when we start adding rules & laws to Scripture?
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Interesting thing about getting into Scripture....it pushes sexual purity. Abstaining from ALL sexual immorality, not merely fornication or adultery, or sodomy, etc. ALL sexual immorality...anything that feeds the carnal mind. That ANY sexual activity outside of marriage is sexual immorality. (emphasis mine)
Chapter and verse please.
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So then one has to honestly evaluate masturbation.
Yep. And I stand by what I have posted as a result.
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It is the deliberate manipulation of one's body in order to mimic the physical response one has with sex. It is a sexual act. Does it belong outside of marriage?
Not according to Scripture.
Again, chapter and verse please.
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Is it sin? That completely depends on whether one has been convicted of it or not by God....a child who masturbates is doing it in innocence....just like they play doctor innocently (I doubt anyone would argue that we should not go around doing that as adults or teens?). When one starts to feel guilty, and most do...REGARDLESS of the teaching they have received about it (according to several surveys etc)...one needs to evaluate why.
1. Sin is sin. It isn't ok just because your little and suddenly becomes not ok when you get older. The Bible says we are without excuse and I believe it.
2. I felt horribly guilty when I hit a bird driving down the highway. Yes, I should look at why I felt guilty, but feeling guilty is not 100% guarantee that I am sinning. Scripture even tells us that we have an accuser and that accuser isn't God. 
Again, that's why we MUST evaluate everything in light of Scripture. Everything.
quote:
The biggest problem with masturbation is...it merely deals with the physical hunger that sex is for. What does it do for the intimacy? Interestingly enough...Intimacy can be had without sex. without sexual activity.
Maybe therein lies the answer...if one seeks intimacy (deep meaningful relationships) one could feed at least half of the hunger...and thus it would be easier to choose not to feed the physical side....because feeding the physical side only leads to more hunger. It does not fully satisfy because it is a poor subsitute.
I'm not sure why you are posting this. No one here has argued that masturbation has anything to do with intimacy or that it's a replacement for our emotional need for intimacy.  In fact, no one here has said that masturbation is filling the place of a spouse. The opposite was argued - that it is simply trying to meet a basic physiological urge to lessen that urge. Now, I know that you believe that this makes the urge worse, but a lot of "experts" would disagree with you. I contend that the reason is that everyone is wired differently.
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IF one seeks deep friendships, within which you can talk about anything, and meets the emotional side of their needs, it is easier to choose not to indulge the physical side of their needs.
I hate to break it to you, but I have many deep friendships and that hasn't dimished my sex drive in the least.
-----------------------------------------------
And, as I have repeatedly said, I am not arguing that masturbation is always ok. It's not. But, this idea that it's inherently a sin, is adding to Scripture. Scripture doesn't say that.
There are people who shouldn't do it. Been there, done that. But again, I'm not willing to call something a sin when Scripture doesn't. Period. End of story. For some it IS a sin. Absolutely! I have never argued that. But these sweeping statements and generalizations are silly. It is also silly to me that the God honoring argument comes up.
Does it honor God when I sit on the toilet and go potty? Does it draw me closer to God when I change out my soiled maxi pad? What does it do for my faith when I eat ice cream? Or mow my lawn? Does it honor God when someone has a glass of wine with dinner?
Why did I just post those silly things? Because that's what happens when one grabs hold of a verse or two, pulls it out of context and starts applying it to "prove" an argument from Scripture that isn't IN Scripture.
Again, I used to think as some of you do, but I dug deeper and was challenged in my views. And I found my views wanting. I could come up with philosophies and psychologies that would bolster my ideas, but I kept going back to Scripture and Scripture simply wasn't saying what I was believing. I could pull out verses and try to make them fit in a box, but in the end, I was left with emptiness. I just couldn't play that Spiritual game anymore. The fact is, the Scriptures some of you have posted only "fit" the box you have made if you already accept the box. What I'm asking folks to do is to re-evaluate the box.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
As of 5/22/11, 73 Law Enforcement Officers were killed in the line of duty in the US. Please pray for the thin blue line.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/28/2009 9:44:08 PM
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solo_soprano
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/27/2005
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quote:
The fact is, the Scriptures some of you have posted only "fit" the box you have made if you already accept the box.
I wish we could do this with many issues. :)
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/29/2009 8:32:00 AM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
Joined: 12/1/2008
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The point I was making was that according to college textbook (Human Sexuality 2008, 6th ed.) the history of masturbation originated with the Catholic church who used Bible Scripture Genesis 38:7-9 out of context to alarm the locals. Knowing the history of something gives us understanding on how to deal with the same issues today as they had back then. I apologize for remarks made that may have offended some.
The other point I was making was that to judge that one is not fulfilling one's purpose is a call that shouldn't be made by man but by God. Only HE knows who is or who is not fulfulling their purpose in HIM.
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/29/2009 8:33:14 AM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
Joined: 12/1/2008
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quote:
And, as I have repeatedly said, I am not arguing that masturbation is always ok. It's not. But, this idea that it's inherently a sin, is adding to Scripture. Scripture doesn't say that.
There are people who shouldn't do it. Been there, done that. But again, I'm not willing to call something a sin when Scripture doesn't. Period. End of story. For some it IS a sin. Absolutely! I have never argued that. But these sweeping statements and generalizations are silly. It is also silly to me that the God honoring argument comes up.
Does it honor God when I sit on the toilet and go potty? Does it draw me closer to God when I change out my soiled maxi pad? What does it do for my faith when I eat ice cream? Or mow my lawn? Does it honor God when someone has a glass of wine with dinner?
Why did I just post those silly things? Because that's what happens when one grabs hold of a verse or two, pulls it out of context and starts applying it to "prove" an argument from Scripture that isn't IN Scripture.
Again, I used to think as some of you do, but I dug deeper and was challenged in my views. And I found my views wanting. I could come up with philosophies and psychologies that would bolster my ideas, but I kept going back to Scripture and Scripture simply wasn't saying what I was believing. I could pull out verses and try to make them fit in a box, but in the end, I was left with emptiness. I just couldn't play that Spiritual game anymore. The fact is, the Scriptures some of you have posted only "fit" the box you have made if you already accept the box. What I'm asking folks to do is to re-evaluate the box.
Again, excellent post! God bless!
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/1/2009 4:30:59 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Yes, Scripture does call us to throw off ALL sexual immorality. The problem here is that masturbation is not once mentioned in Scripture as being sexually immoral. In addition, which Scripture says that the only place one should ever experience sexual arousal is in marriage? My Bible only says not to lust or to have sex with [insert long list here]. The Bible does not speak to sexual arousal - aside from wet dreams and such which apparently magically make sexual arousal outside of marriage ok.
A couple of problems with this:
1) Pedophilia is NEVER mentioned in the Bible either (not saying masturbation is the same thing...so lets not even go there)...so as long as someone marries a child, it's okay?
2) NO one ever equated sexual AROUSAL, which is NOT the same thing as ORGASM, with sexual sin. NO ONE....it is NOT the arousal that is the problem...it is how one gratifies and where one gratifies that AROUSAL/DESIRE. So first of...NEVER confuse arousal with orgasm or sex itself.
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There are women in this thread who refuse to admit, regardless, that masturbation is in ANY WAY sexual.....that the need for orgasm is anything but sexual.......
I have not argued that so please don't box me in to trying to argue that with you.
I was answering a question someone had asked why I kept pushing that masturbation was sexual. At no point was I trying to box you in personally. Sorry if you took it that way.
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It is a choice, but again, Scripture does not say that choice is inherently sinful. For many, it is. For others, I'm not convinced and I still can find no Scripture that says so. Period.
Choice is not sinful. It is what we choose and why. Again…we are called to, in Scripture, turn from fleshly desires, particulary the single. A fleshly desire is that for orgasm. IS the desire what is wrong? NO…is arousal wrong? no…but to indulge it, outside of marriage is.
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The problem with your argument here is that you are basing it on the assumption that sexual arousal, even if manually stimulated, is always a sin unless you are with your spouse. And yet, Scripture doesn't say that. Scripture gives us some big long lists of those folks & things we are not to be carnal with, but again, it never says carnal is inherently sinful. In fact, it isn't!
Again...you are equating sexual arousal with sex or orgasm. Arousal happens..by itself, or when we look at something, when we talk with someone, etc. It is what we do with that arousal.....do I act on it (which requires some form of sexual gratification) or do I choose to save that gratification until I am married? Or whether we, outside of marriage, deliberately cause our own (or someone else’s) arousal.
God simply states that gratification is for marriage.
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Folks throughout history actually used to use the same arguments used here against masturbation to argue why sex is only for procreation and never for intimacy. Afterall, carnal is a bad word right? And sex is carnal? [
Which of course means that the carnal response in a wet dream is bad as well because of course, the mind is responding carnally. And a child who plays with themself is sinning because that normal exploration is done to feed carnal sensations?
Carnal is NOT a bad word...but it does mean to seek out the pleasures of self and flesh. We are not to put carnality above godliness. We are told repeatedly in Scripture to throw off the carnal mind and carnal actions....in other words to NOT seek them out outside of their proper places.
Wet dreams are a totally involuntary…they are not something anyone seeks or does to themselves.
Masturbation is a DELIBERATE act…one that can be avoided if one chooses. It doesn’t happen by
accident or without the adult/teen having chosen to pursue it.
Food is a carnal need, but the abuse of food (gluttony) is sin..
Sex is a carnal need, but sexual activity is not acceptable (or sin) outside of marriage.
Amazingly enough, as most children mature..they put off childish things…and one of those things is….playing with themselves…… and yes…children who play with themselves are feeding carnal sensations, but is it sin for a child?
I don’t think so, because the Bible teaches us about the innocence of children, or the theory of accountability: The age when we realize that something is not acceptable or is flat out wrong.
A two year old who lies (or even a 4 year old) is not same moral as a child of 8 or 9…why? Because they are not fully able to comprehend that lying is wrong…or even what lying is.
A child who plays with themselves is the same thing. They do not even have the vocabulary to state that they have reached orgasm. They do not have the understanding of what sexual is…but as we grow and mature…we do begin to realize the difference
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quote:
Interesting thing about getting into Scripture....it pushes sexual purity. Abstaining from ALL sexual immorality, not merely fornication or adultery, or sodomy, etc. ALL sexual immorality...anything that feeds the carnal mind. That ANY sexual activity outside of marriage is sexual immorality. (emphasis mine)
Chapter and verse please. Hebrew 13:3 and 4 for starters. I Thessalonians 4:5, Colossians 3:5
Secondly, all I realize I need to clarify one of my sentences….sexual immorality is any sexual experience willingly sought before marriage, as well as adultery after marriage.
A deliberate sexual act outside of marriage is against Scripture, again, according to Hebrews.
IF masturbation in older children, teens and adults is sexual (and there is no doubt it is on most fronts as it is used to assuage sexual desire and bring sexual orgasm)….then it is a deliberate sexual act outside of marriage.
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quote:
Is it sin? That completely depends on whether one has been convicted of it or not by God....a child who masturbates is doing it in innocence....just like they play doctor innocently (I doubt anyone would argue that we should not go around doing that as adults or teens?). When one starts to feel guilty, and most do...REGARDLESS of the teaching they have received about it (according to several surveys etc)...one needs to evaluate why.
1. Sin is sin. It isn't ok just because your little and suddenly becomes not ok when you get older. The Bible says we are without excuse and I believe it. Children are held innocent, according to Scripture, until they reach the age of accountability or spiritual maturity. That age is going to differ from one child to the next, but they are held innocent until that time. Deut. 1:39.
If a young person can understand and explain I John 2: 15, 16, they may have reached a state where they are responsible to God.
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2. I felt horribly guilty when I hit a bird driving down the highway. Yes, I should look at why I felt guilty, but feeling guilty is not 100% guarantee that I am sinning. Scripture even tells us that we have an accuser and that accuser isn't God. Hmm…I don’t feel guilty when I hit a bird…but I do feel sorrow. Sorrow and guilt are NOT the same thing. Being sorry and being guilty are not the same thing. Here is perhaps where some of the problem lies. Have we learned to differentiate between feeling guilt and feeling sorrow?
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Again, that's why we MUST evaluate everything in light of Scripture. Everything. agreed.
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The biggest problem with masturbation is...it merely deals with the physical hunger that sex is for. What does it do for the intimacy? Interestingly enough...Intimacy can be had without sex. without sexual activity.
Maybe therein lies the answer...if one seeks intimacy (deep meaningful relationships) one could feed at least half of the hunger...and thus it would be easier to choose not to feed the physical side....because feeding the physical side only leads to more hunger. It does not fully satisfy because it is a poor subsitute.
quote:
I'm not sure why you are posting this. No one here has argued that masturbation has anything to do with intimacy or that it's a replacement for our emotional need for intimacy........ Now, I know that you believe that this makes the urge worse, but a lot of "experts" would disagree with you. I contend that the reason is that everyone is wired differently. and just as many experts would agree with me….but the problem comes from only seeing half of what sex is…that that is why I posted what I did.
SEX and the urges that go with it are not merely about the physical need….it goes deeper than that…and many times what is taken for a sexual need is really a hunger for intimacy.
My point being is…from experience…meeting the emotional half of the hunger helps as much if not more, than merely meeting the physical aspect of it. It is not unlike eating when one is really lonely.
It fills the void for a bit…but it doesn’t solve the “problem”.
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IF one seeks deep friendships, within which you can talk about anything, and meets the emotional side of their needs, it is easier to choose not to indulge the physical side of their needs.
I hate to break it to you, but I have many deep friendships and that hasn't dimished my sex drive in the least.
I didn’t say it would lower the sex drive…it just makes choices easier. Kind of like choosing a carrot over a candy bar. Does NOT lower my want for the candy bar, just a different healthier choice that will fill MORE of my needs than the chocolate will.
I merely said it would make it easier to make the choice to not indulge in masturbation, to set aside passion (albeit NOT remove it) until the proper place and time.
Song of Solomon addresses this even..by pointing out that it is best to not awaken passion until its proper time.
Does that mean you won't have sexual urges before marriage? Heck no!
It does mean that there is a time and place for feeding and satiating those urges.
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Does it honor God when I sit on the toilet and go potty? Does it draw me closer to God when I change out my soiled maxi pad? What does it do for my faith when I eat ice cream? Or mow my lawn? Does it honor God when someone has a glass of wine with dinner?
Hmm….let’s see…actual actions that take care of the temple of the Holy Spirit…using the potty and basic hygiene as opposed to seeking to gratify ones’ self sexually?
Does it honor God to use the toilet? According to Leviticus, yea. It does. He outlines where human waste was to be disposed off. To follow basic hygiene rules does honor Him because it prevents the spread of disease to other humans. Also…if you didn’t use the toilet….you’d either die from not getting rid of your body’s waste, or you’d mess yourself all the time. Again…a little different than choosing to indulge sexual appetites outside of marriage.
When you eat ice cream, do you thank God for the treat? Do you trust Him to bless you with good things in all areas of your life?
Mowing your lawn…is that not caring for God’s earth…keeping it under subjection and control like He mandated that we do?
A glass of wine…again what is the spirit in which they drink it? Are they thankful?
So yea…those things are silly…but at the same time they can honor God….
The only two that could possibly cross the line into sin would be ice cream and wine…and that is only if one gives into gluttony or drunkenness. Revise that…I suppose your lawn could lead to haughtiness….which could be a sin.
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Again, I used to think as some of you do, but I dug deeper and was challenged in my views. And I found my views wanting. I could come up with philosophies and psychologies that would bolster my ideas, but I kept going back to Scripture and Scripture simply wasn't saying what I was believing. I could pull out verses and try to make them fit in a box, but in the end, I was left with emptiness. I just couldn't play that Spiritual game anymore. The fact is, the Scriptures some of you have posted only "fit" the box you have made if you already accept the box. What I'm asking folks to do is to re-evaluate the box.
Interestingly enough…I come at this from the opposite direction.
I used to feel the same as some of you….but after going back to Scripture, and going back and forth, I changed my views.
Why?
Because I re-evaluated the box I was in.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/1/2009 6:03:48 PM
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mariamaria
Posts: 30
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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o.k, let me put a different spin on this.
I don't mean to get personnel but in order to get my point across I will...
I was sexually abused as a child and as an adult many horrid sexual things have happened thus putting me off sex (yes have been to therapy ect, hasn't helped)
I am married to a wonderful guy, he totally understands that I am just not into sex and is great about it. The act itself just brings back too many hurtful memories.
Masturbation which I think is a sin in God's eyes is some thing I indulge in from time to time just to let off some sexual steam, so to speak. I think I do it because no one else is involved thus It doesn't provoke any unpleasant past memories. I never fantasize about any one , it is just pure letting off sexual steam.
I just pray that God helps me with this
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/1/2009 8:27:39 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 2235
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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I'm summing up for ease of posting. If I missed something that is outside of this box, let me know:
quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
quote:
quote:
Interesting thing about getting into Scripture....it pushes sexual purity. Abstaining from ALL sexual immorality, not merely fornication or adultery, or sodomy, etc. ALL sexual immorality...anything that feeds the carnal mind. That ANY sexual activity outside of marriage is sexual immorality. (emphasis mine)
Chapter and verse please. Hebrew 13:3 and 4 for starters. I Thessalonians 4:5, Colossians 3:5
Secondly, all I realize I need to clarify one of my sentences….sexual immorality is any sexual experience willingly sought before marriage, as well as adultery after marriage.
A deliberate sexual act outside of marriage is against Scripture, again, according to Hebrews.
Let me post the Scriptures you posted:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
1 Thessalonians 4:2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, 5 not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
Colossian 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived.
You have posted these as evidence that masturbation is sexual morality. However, I am not seeing where you came to this conclusion and this is what I am challenging. I absolutely believe these verses. We ARE to avoid sexual immorality and keep the marriage bed pure. I am not arguing that in the least. The question is, what is sexual immorality. You have defined it as anything that is a deliberate sexual act outside of marriage.
BUT, how does Scripture define it?
When we do a word search, we see that sexual immorality is used to refer to homosexual relations, adultery, fornication, bestiality, incest, etc. If you do a word study, you will find that the Greek term used frequently in the NT for sexual immorality (including the verses you noted in Thessalonians & Colossians) is:
"porneia" and is defined as follows
A similar term is used in the Hebrews verse:
"pornos" which is defined here
So again, where are you getting your definition of sexual immorality. I believe the Bible is clear that sexual immorality is engaging in those things that Scriptures defines as sexually immoral. Masturbation isn't listed once as being sexually immoral however.
As far as pedophilia. Scripturally speaking, one cannot have sex with someone unless they are married. So, we have to ask, who can one marry. The OT is very clear who can marry who and when Scripture refers to who the Israelites can marry, it refers to "women". And Scripture refers to "men" doing the marrying. I would take that as marriage is not for children and since you cannot have sex with someone other than your spouse and your spouse must be an adult (albeit in Bible days, adulthood started much younger than today), that would exclude pedophilia.
I have to admit that I have never done a study on this however so I will admit that my argument here isn't strong.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
As of 5/22/11, 73 Law Enforcement Officers were killed in the line of duty in the US. Please pray for the thin blue line.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/2/2009 10:09:34 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 2235
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Oops! I realized at 3am this morning (I really hate it when I do that!  ) that I forgot to address one point.
Guilt.
Contrary to what some may think, I actually do know the difference between guilt and sorrow. Maybe some of you don't struggle with that, but I'd hazard a guess that many do. Guilt does not always come from God. As I previously mentioned, we have an "accuser" and it's not Jesus. The Bible says the enemy is out to condemn us while Jesus is out to redeem us.
Now, don't get me wrong. Guilt serves a very important service. God uses it to restore us when we stray from Him. However, guilt does not always come from God. It's a weapon the enemy uses, often quite successfully, to destroy us.
There are 3 basic ways the enemy provokes guilt:
1. When we have done something wrong, but have fully repented and been forgiven by God and yet we struggle with accepting that forgiveness or forgiving ourselves. Been there, done that, got the tshirt.
2. When we have done something, though not intentionally, that caused harm. For instance, a driver hits a child who darts out of nowhere into the street. It may have been completely unavoidable on the driver's part, but most will be wracked with guilt and "what if's". Yes, sorrow is a part of that, but for most people, the enemy will try to accuse them and make them unable to forgive themselves even if there was nothing to forgive.
3. When we have done something that is not sinful, but the enemy accuses us anyway. For instance, a child who grows up in a racist family, may feel false guilt over becoming friends with a child of another race. The guilt the child feels is not at all because the child is doing anything wrong (in fact, they are doing something right), but the lies they have been fed provoke guilt that they are doing something wrong.
All those things may lead to feelings of guilt but the guilt isn't from God. Now, you may not have experienced those things or experienced guilt as a result. If you haven't, praise the Lord! I don't know that I've ever met someone who hasn't struggled with this from time to time. You may think that others don't know the difference between feelings of sorrow and feelings of guilt, but I'd be careful going there if you know what I mean.
The fact is, what I have just posted is straight out of Scripture. I'll post some later if you want (I'm getting ready for work and running out of time), but maybe that's for another thread. I'd be happy to start one if you are interested into digging into this deeper.
The fact is though that the Bible tells us to test all things against Scripture. I believe that not only includes teachings from others, but our own feelings. Feelings are not God. They have been warped and twisted because of the Fall. We should always test what we feel against Scripture to make sure what we are feeling is from God or from someone else.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
As of 5/22/11, 73 Law Enforcement Officers were killed in the line of duty in the US. Please pray for the thin blue line.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/2/2009 11:37:12 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Unfortunately that is one of the problems with a lot of modern translations...they leave out words that are in the orginal text by substituting ONE word that covers all of them...but the individual words give a little more detail. Here are those same verses posted in some other versions:
I Thess. 4:5 "Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God...verse 7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. "
concupisence, which is used here rather than just immorality means sexual desire or ardent sensual longing. The verse is NOT stating that sexual desire is wrong in and of itself...but in the context of the culture of that time and the chapter, that indulging those desires outside of marriage is wrong.
In verse 7, the word translated as uncleanness is ajkaqarsiva or Akatharsia, which is translated as the impurity of indulging sexual desires/needs outside of the blessing of marriage.
Does not masturbation meet those definitions?
quote:
BUT, how does Scripture define it?
When we do a word search, we see that sexual immorality is used to refer to homosexual relations, adultery, fornication, bestiality, incest, etc. If you do a word study, you will find that the Greek term used frequently in the NT for sexual immorality (including the verses you noted in Thessalonians & Colossians) is:
"porneia" and is defined as follows
A similar term is used in the Hebrews verse:
"pornos" which is defined here
So again, where are you getting your definition of sexual immorality. I believe the Bible is clear that sexual immorality is engaging in those things that Scriptures defines as sexually immoral. Masturbation isn't listed once as being sexually immoral however.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
lascivousness (Aselgia in the Greek) means deliberately arousing sexual desire and giving into sexual desire outside of marriage.
When someone masturbates...are they not giving into sexual desires outside of marraige?
quote:
As far as pedophilia. Scripturally speaking, one cannot have sex with someone unless they are married. So, we have to ask, who can one marry. The OT is very clear who can marry who and when Scripture refers to who the Israelites can marry, it refers to "women". And Scripture refers to "men" doing the marrying. I would take that as marriage is not for children and since you cannot have sex with someone other than your spouse and your spouse must be an adult (albeit in Bible days, adulthood started much younger than today), that would exclude pedophilia.
but using the thinking that it must be specifically mentioned in the Bible, and that in the culture of the day, all one had to have accomplished to be considered a woman was to have started menses (which is historically recorded even back then as being as early as 12 and always by age 14), and to have had one's bat mitzvah (if one was Jewish) or if one was not Jewish, have one's parents decide you were a woman.....how is pedophilia exluded?
It isn't by the definition that it must be specifically mentioned....however it is in principle.
Masturbation is not excluded by specific mention...but it is by principle. If we are not to indulge in sexual activities outside of marriage, and we are not to deliberately arouse sexual desires.....how does that NOT exclude masturbation?
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/2/2009 11:49:21 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Oops! I realized at 3am this morning (I really hate it when I do that! ) that I forgot to address one point. I hate when I do that too!
quote:
Guilt does not always come from God. As I previously mentioned, we have an "accuser" and it's not Jesus. The Bible says the enemy is out to condemn us while Jesus is out to redeem us.
Now, don't get me wrong. Guilt serves a very important service. God uses it to restore us when we stray from Him. However, guilt does not always come from God. It's a weapon the enemy uses, often quite successfully, to destroy us.
True...and that is why I merely stated that IF one feels guilt one needs to evaluate the WHY one is feeling guilt....by Scripture, by wise counsel, by prayer.....
quote:
The fact is though that the Bible tells us to test all things against Scripture. I believe that not only includes teachings from others, but our own feelings. Feelings are not God. They have been warped and twisted because of the Fall. We should always test what we feel against Scripture to make sure what we are feeling is from God or from someone else.
We must always test things from Scripture...even if doing so doesn't change our minds or those around us. We all benefit from deeper testing of our views/feelings in light of the Word....as well as testing teachings that we have had in the past or even the present.
I am willing to grant that maybe masturbation is like eating the meat offered to idols....that while according to the law it is sin, perhaps for some it is allowable...but one can only determine that when they are honest about what masturbation is, and after a lot of prayer, seeking counsel (from sources one can trust to not judge, but to pray with you and seek Scripture with you) and studying the Scripture.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/2/2009 8:37:33 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 2235
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
Unfortunately that is one of the problems with a lot of modern translations...they leave out words that are in the orginal text by substituting ONE word that covers all of them...but the individual words give a little more detail. Here are those same verses posted in some other versions:
I Thess. 4:5 "Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God...verse 7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. "
concupisence, which is used here rather than just immorality means sexual desire or ardent sensual longing. The verse is NOT stating that sexual desire is wrong in and of itself...but in the context of the culture of that time and the chapter, that indulging those desires outside of marriage is wrong.
In verse 7, the word translated as uncleanness is ajkaqarsiva or Akatharsia, which is translated as the impurity of indulging sexual desires/needs outside of the blessing of marriage.
Does not masturbation meet those definitions?
Actually, I was using several translations - and going back to the original Greek so I'm not sure where your problem with my translation is? Did I miss something here?
Going to this particular verse - here is a link to the Greek term in which concupisense is translated: epithumia
Basically, it is lust and longing for that which is forbidden. So again, we go back to - what is forbidden? Scripture says that is adultery, fornication, etc. So, again, I can't see how masturbation is addressed here.
The term you addressed above (akatharsia) also has to do with lust. I would agree. We are not to lust. What is lust? Lust is a depraved passion (back to adultery, fornication, etc). Again, I cannot see how this can be related to masturbation UNLESS one is using pornography or fantasy to do it. And, I think every single person here has agreed that THAT is wrong and sinful.
quote:
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
lascivousness (Aselgia in the Greek) means deliberately arousing sexual desire and giving into sexual desire outside of marriage.
When someone masturbates...are they not giving into sexual desires outside of marraige?
I would disagree with your definition again. Aselgia means "unbridled lust". We addressed lust earlier. Sexual sensation/physical urges I do not believe are the same thing as lust unless you direct those urges and desires onto someone other than your spouse. Jesus said that if a man looked on another woman and lusted after her in his heart, he had committed adultery. This is where pornography and sexual fantasy would fall into the realm of sin and where, one should not masturbate if that is the mode they use to do it.
And I believe I have made my argument on that fairly clear. You may disagree with me on that. That's ok. We can agree to disagree.
quote:
quote:
As far as pedophilia. Scripturally speaking, one cannot have sex with someone unless they are married. So, we have to ask, who can one marry. The OT is very clear who can marry who and when Scripture refers to who the Israelites can marry, it refers to "women". And Scripture refers to "men" doing the marrying. I would take that as marriage is not for children and since you cannot have sex with someone other than your spouse and your spouse must be an adult (albeit in Bible days, adulthood started much younger than today), that would exclude pedophilia.
but using the thinking that it must be specifically mentioned in the Bible, and that in the culture of the day, all one had to have accomplished to be considered a woman was to have started menses (which is historically recorded even back then as being as early as 12 and always by age 14), and to have had one's bat mitzvah (if one was Jewish) or if one was not Jewish, have one's parents decide you were a woman.....how is pedophilia exluded?
It isn't by the definition that it must be specifically mentioned....however it is in principle.
Masturbation is not excluded by specific mention...but it is by principle. If we are not to indulge in sexual activities outside of marriage, and we are not to deliberately arouse sexual desires.....how does that NOT exclude masturbation?
I don't believe something has to be specifically mentioned in Scripture to be a sin. Watching a pornigraphic movie may not be listed in Scripture, but I'd hazard a guess that all of us would agree that it would be wrong to do.
However, I believe that if something isn't specifically addressed by Scripture we need to make really, really certain that we don't add something that isn't there. It's the meat sacrificed to idols thing. The reasoning for why that was wrong was actually pretty good reasoning. And yet, Paul was quite clear that, in and of itself, it was not wrong.
You and other God-fearing folks believe the principle against masturbation, all masturbation, is in Scripture. I'm not seeing it and neither do many other God-fearing believers.
If I may be so bold - this doesn't affect me personally one way or another. This isn't something I am currently engaged in. I have no agenda other than to challenge us to really dig into the Word and be freed from the rules of man. And for some of us to not lay extra burdens that God doesn't on our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I'm not sure there is much more for me to say, so I'll leave it with the following Scripture from Paul:
quote:
Romans 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16 Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
As of 5/22/11, 73 Law Enforcement Officers were killed in the line of duty in the US. Please pray for the thin blue line.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/3/2009 2:39:48 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
Joined: 12/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Romans 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14 As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15 If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16 Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Didn't want anyone to miss that. Scripture in context speaks for itself. Great post!
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/3/2009 4:46:58 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Actually, I was using several translations - and going back to the original Greek so I'm not sure where your problem with my translation is? Did I miss something here?
Nope...just making a statement that most posters refer to the pornea (immorality) and that most modern translations leave out the other sexual issues...and cover them all under immorality.
quote:
Going to this particular verse - here is a link to the Greek term in which concupisense is translated: epithumia
Basically, it is lust and longing for that which is forbidden. So again, we go back to - what is forbidden? Scripture says that is adultery, fornication, etc. So, again, I can't see how masturbation is addressed here.
Actually it merely means desire, longing, but can also be a longing for that which is forbidden. According to the dictionary, it merely means to be very desirous of (and according to my Greek sources that is accurate).
quote:
.....
And I believe I have made my argument on that fairly clear. You may disagree with me on that. That's ok. We can agree to disagree.
Yep...we can, and as I stated in that particular post of mine....even if nothing changes about anyone's belief on this...at least we got into the Word and have a better understanding of it, and people who may not agree with us.
Ultimately that should be our goal....to dig into the Word and sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/4/2009 11:56:08 AM
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myka
Posts: 262
Status: offline
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quote:
Nope...just making a statement that most posters refer to the pornea (immorality) and that most modern translations leave out the other sexual issues...and cover them all under immorality.
The words used in the Greek do not specifically relate to sexual issues; they are more generic terms that can be related to sexuality as well as other issues.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/4/2009 4:42:58 PM
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insaneforHim
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/4/2009
Status: offline
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I'm actually glad that this topic is around. Forgive me if I am repeating something someone else has said but I'm not overly fond of reading through 8 pages of posts to catch up.
My mindset is:
Masturbation=bad
My boyfriend struggles with lust and masturbation and he joined the Every Man's battle site to get help there. One of the men there explained to him how masturbation trains the body to "release" quickly. So men when they are having pure sex in marriage, can't last as long sexually because they've trained themselves for quick release. Sex is supposed to be pleasurable for both husband and wife. If a man releases early, its seldom pleasurable for both involved.
Also, when it comes to masturbation, truly, can you do it without getting images? I struggle with masturbation. The feeling is wonderful. But my mind ALWAYS wanders to thoughts of my boyfriend. It's both mental and physical impurity. I have no right to be thinking about my boyfriend in a sexual way. Those are thoughts are reserved for his future wife and her alone. I don't want to take that away from her because of my lack of control. I definitely know that I will be embarrassed to admit those thoughts later on when I am married.
Basically, if its wrong for a man, its wrong for a woman. God doesn't give us double standards.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/5/2009 7:35:22 PM
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praypraypray01
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: insaneforHim
I'm actually glad that this topic is around. Forgive me if I am repeating something someone else has said but I'm not overly fond of reading through 8 pages of posts to catch up.
My mindset is:
Masturbation=bad
I definitely know that I will be embarrassed to admit those thoughts later on when I am married.
I agree with all this. Thank you for this topic because I think of myself as a very bad person when this happens. I am glad to know I am not alone. I feel like Paul in the Romans, talking about the evil spirit inside of him - i am not sure which chapter it is. He himself says that he doesn't want to do the wrong, but it is the evil inside of him that wants to.
Please, I came to ask here for help, or prayer. You don't have to write the prayers here, just if you're reading this, a short one to say will be great. About a year ago, I finally was able to go without this sin for a long time. These past weeks it's coming to me again but I don't want to do it, no no no! If you don't mind, and if you forgive, I'd like to state here that I no longer want to give into this sin. I am too ashamed to confess this anywhere else. But I need to say it to somebody!
To take part in the actual conversation, I do believe that it is a sin to those who think of it as a sin. Or who feel guilt about it. However, the line between good and bad is very thin. When I started to struggle with this, it was innocent. I honestly was not realizing at first that it was a sin. Later, when I realized what it makes me want to imagine, I realized it was a sin to me. When did I cross the line? ...I don't know.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/6/2009 2:59:21 AM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 583
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I agree with all this. Thank you for this topic because I think of myself as a very bad person when this happens. I am glad to know I am not alone. I feel like Paul in the Romans, talking about the evil spirit inside of him - i am not sure which chapter it is. He himself says that he doesn't want to do the wrong, but it is the evil inside of him that wants to.
Please, I came to ask here for help, or prayer. You don't have to write the prayers here, just if you're reading this, a short one to say will be great. About a year ago, I finally was able to go without this sin for a long time. These past weeks it's coming to me again but I don't want to do it, no no no! If you don't mind, and if you forgive, I'd like to state here that I no longer want to give into this sin. I am too ashamed to confess this anywhere else. But I need to say it to somebody!
To take part in the actual conversation, I do believe that it is a sin to those who think of it as a sin. Or who feel guilt about it. However, the line between good and bad is very thin. When I started to struggle with this, it was innocent. I honestly was not realizing at first that it was a sin. Later, when I realized what it makes me want to imagine, I realized it was a sin to me. When did I cross the line? ...I don't know.
It is not unusual to sometimes forsake a certain sin/weakness for a time and then fall into the same pattern of behavior. Despite our shortcomings, we have a High Priest who is able to sympathize with our weaknessess and temptations (Hebrews 4:15-16) and we can go BOLDY to the throne of God's grace and recieve from Him the help we need to overcome our temptations and infirmities.
May God's love abound in your heart thru the Holy Spirit. May you come to personally know the height, the breadth, the length and the depth of God's love for you (Ephesians 3:17 amplified) that heals you and makes you whole 
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/6/2009 6:06:54 AM
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praypraypray01
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
It is not unusual to sometimes forsake a certain sin/weakness for a time and then fall into the same pattern of behavior. Despite our shortcomings, we have a High Priest who is able to sympathize with our weaknessess and temptations (Hebrews 4:15-16) and we can go BOLDY to the throne of God's grace and recieve from Him the help we need to overcome our temptations and infirmities.
May God's love abound in your heart thru the Holy Spirit. May you come to personally know the height, the breadth, the length and the depth of God's love for you (Ephesians 3:17 amplified) that heals you and makes you whole
Thank you so much!!!!
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/9/2009 12:18:22 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
Joined: 12/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: praypraypray01
quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
It is not unusual to sometimes forsake a certain sin/weakness for a time and then fall into the same pattern of behavior. Despite our shortcomings, we have a High Priest who is able to sympathize with our weaknessess and temptations (Hebrews 4:15-16) and we can go BOLDY to the throne of God's grace and recieve from Him the help we need to overcome our temptations and infirmities.
May God's love abound in your heart thru the Holy Spirit. May you come to personally know the height, the breadth, the length and the depth of God's love for you (Ephesians 3:17 amplified) that heals you and makes you whole
Thank you so much!!!!
Echoing truthrevealed--you are covered in prayer dear one(((pray01)))! May the Lord encompass you with the liberty He has so graciously given us, His dear children. Be blessed and call to Him whenever you feel the "urge". Just get up and go jog, exercise, read the BIBLE, listen to Christian music. He will help us when we cry out, each & every time. Even if we go through again & again, never give up and don't beat yourself up about it. God knows how hard you want this gone. Trust Him and keep your trust in Him, forever.
God bless you,
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/9/2009 1:05:54 PM
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insaneforHim
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/4/2009
Status: offline
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I've never thought of it as being a relative sin. I actually started off masturbating when I was about 11 years old. I discovered it by accident and didn't really realize what I was doing. Just that it felt good. After a while, it stopped being a curious little girl investigating a feeling and became a lust after the boys I liked and what I wanted to do with them.
Praypraypray
you most certainly are not alone by any means. I didn't realize how badly I struggled with masturbation and lust until started dating my boyfriend 8 months ago. We both struggle not to pounce each other and not to have sex or mutual release. You are most definitely in my prayers my dear. Never forget that there is no sin that God cannot forgive.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/11/2009 2:42:14 PM
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praypraypray01
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/5/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
Echoing truthrevealed--you are covered in prayer dear one(((pray01)))! May the Lord encompass you with the liberty He has so graciously given us, His dear children. Be blessed and call to Him whenever you feel the "urge". Just get up and go jog, exercise, read the BIBLE, listen to Christian music. He will help us when we cry out, each & every time. Even if we go through again & again, never give up and don't beat yourself up about it. God knows how hard you want this gone. Trust Him and keep your trust in Him, forever.
God bless you,
quote:
Praypraypray
you most certainly are not alone by any means. I didn't realize how badly I struggled with masturbation and lust until started dating my boyfriend 8 months ago. We both struggle not to pounce each other and not to have sex or mutual release. You are most definitely in my prayers my dear. Never forget that there is no sin that God cannot forgive.
Thank you both very much, your support is such great encouragement and help, really!!
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RE: Masturbation-women - 6/12/2009 2:17:08 PM
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dboe
Posts: 26
Joined: 1/19/2009
Status: offline
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And to all the GENTLEMEN calling all the women out here, well, do your job guys, pony up and marry the women that way we would not have the problem, you know?????
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