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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:04:00 PM
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Gail7364
Posts: 22
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quote:
It is a deliberate sexual act.
No, it is a release of a NATURAL physical need. Not at all sexual. I am single. I do not have sex. The last time that I had sex was with my ex when he was my husband. I am as pure as a virgin in that aspect. And I am thankful that I don't carry around unnecessary guilt about a natural function of the body.
And what about the women (I being one of them) who have spontaneous orgasms in our sleep? No dreams, no physical stimulation, no porn, no toys. Just sound asleep and the body released and relieved a natural need.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:24:50 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 583
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quote:
Well...everybody is different. Personally, I know that a woman CAN masturbate and NOT have the first sexual thought. It's a need of the body - a natural need - and there are ways to fulfill that need without sinning. A woman does NOT have to have something to help her along such as sexual "tools" and such.
What about women who wake up and are having an spontaneous orgasm? They wasn't anything present to stimulate arousal - nothing seen, felt or thought of. In my opinion a woman who has an orgasm while sleeping is just her body fulfilling a need. How could it be otherwise? I have had that happen to me since in my late teen years. I was a virgin, had no idea of what sinful thoughts were (as I was brought up with on sexual educations whatsoever), and had no idea what the feelings were to being with. I would just wake up and be having an orgasm. I later learned, after I got married, what was happening to my body.
Well, I haven't mentioned anything concerning "tools" or objects to aid in masturbation. And I've had dreams and have been aroused in sleep since childhood as well in addition to being a married woman---and not all involve my husband. My personal explaination of these "spontaneous occurances" is the fact that 1. we are clothed with flesh 2. we live in a fallen world and 3. the enemy does things all the time to manipulate our mind, feelings and emotions. I understand that you believe a person can masturbate without seeing or thinking anything that stimulates arousal but I will never believe it so I agree to disagree 
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:29:15 PM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
And I am thankful that I don't carry around unnecessary guilt about a natural function of the body.
I personally say, Amen to that!!! Christs' sacrifice has cleansed us from guilt anyhow. No child of God should live with guilt or condemnation. The HolySpirit is our Teacher, He convicts our hearts and He shall lead us into all truth.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:30:13 PM
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myka
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quote:
I've learned it's one of the reasons some feel it isn't sin...because it satisfies that sexual urge without fornication/intercourse.
The problem is that it doesn't satisfy that sexual urge. It is a bit like drinking water when one is hungry; it temporarily delays the urge, but doesn't satisfy completely.
I also tend to think that there are differences in the effects when men engage in such practices and when women do the same thing. For women, it can increase their desire (and is sometimes recommended in certain situations).
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:32:40 PM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
but doesn't satisfy completely
What a profound point! Nothing but God satisfies our hunger completely no matter what the hunger 
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:37:51 PM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
This is totally wrong. I can only see a woman preferring masturbation over sexual (love-making) with her husband when the marriage is in trouble anyway. I can NEVER see a woman preferring masturbation over good, loving, close intimacy with her husband. NEVER!
As the ol' folk say, "keep living"
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/12/2009 11:52:14 PM
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truthrevealed
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I don't get the explaination of--- people get aroused and stimulated naturally as justification for masturbation.( I'm certainly not here to criticize or pass judgement 'cause whatever brings you peace, peace in your heart, peace in your mind-----go for it!) But there are many feelings, moods, desires, etc. that come "naturally" to us human beings of flesh. God forbid that we indulge or follow suit to all or most of them. Once Christ dwells in our hearts we have a new "nature/natural"
As an analogy, I've heard this explaination in people who say they knew they were born a "certain way" becuase their affections and desire for a particular gender were "natural" and that their sexual desire was aroused and stimulated by this gender with no manipulation whatsoever 
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/13/2009 8:33:03 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
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From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gail7364
quote:
It is a deliberate sexual act.
No, it is a release of a NATURAL physical need. Not at all sexual. I am single. I do not have sex. The last time that I had sex was with my ex when he was my husband. I am as pure as a virgin in that aspect. And I am thankful that I don't carry around unnecessary guilt about a natural function of the body.
And what about the women (I being one of them) who have spontaneous orgasms in our sleep? No dreams, no physical stimulation, no porn, no toys. Just sound asleep and the body released and relieved a natural need.
so...you just have orgasms without stimulating your body in anyway? Just up and have them? That is called spontaneous orgasm and is not something you have chosen to cause by any act you are performing.
To masturbate is to deliberately stimulate one's self to the point of orgasm. Sorry...even secular psychologists call masturbation a sexual act. Is is sexual intercourse? No....but it is sexual.
Spontaneous orgasm IS a natural response of the body that happens....spontaneously...without any stimulation of the body in a DELIBERATE act.
Masturbation is a choice someone makes. Therefore, one can choose NOT to.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/13/2009 10:46:48 AM
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poetessfree
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quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
quote:
Sorry, again not holding water. Now don't get me wrong, God has seen fit to help me overcome what was a stronghold for me and I say thank You Jesus!! But I do not think that born again believers are living in a sinful state. So much so that they will go to hell. I believe that God and God alone will judge them according to His standard and not man's futile attempt to pass judgment on another. I believe that it is not written in the Word for a reason. Reasons unrevealed unless God unfolds it to His dear child. You point out the I's but it is very naive to think that most married couples are thinking about God and trying to get closer to Him during sex. I have been married so I know. And it was all about pleasing my husband as it is written by Paul, 1 Cor 7:34--but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.(my emphasis). If I got something out of it, fine. But for the most part, wives are seeking to please their husbands, and I understand that yes, there may be those who think they may get closer to God through sex but there isn't chapter or verse that alludes to this. Indeed, Paul says 1 Cor 7:5--that they should abstain for a time--So do not deprive each other of sexual relations. The only exception to this rule would be the agreement of both husband and wife to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time, so they can give themselves more completely to prayer. Afterward they should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt them because of their lack of self-control. That to me sounds like couples get closer to God when they are apart rather than during intimacy and that the intimacy is so that they will withstand the enemy.
Now as far as those who seek deliverance in this area--Paul also says this--There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: 1 Cor 7. Paul says in both body and spirit. I assume that he means that our bodies are to be sanctified, set apart to be holy unto the Lord. Which is why, I think a lot of us feel/felt guilt or shame. I believe that God wants us to be like virgins even after being in a marriage. Why? So that temptation will not overcome us and lead us into sin through lust of our flesh. Paul also says in 1 Cor 7-- The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Well those of us who are single by choice or made single(widow) have power over our own bodies. We have no one to relinquish that power to which is probably why it is harder to overcome this vice. Where there are two in a marriage, there is only one with the single, but praise God for His working power through His Spirit Who helps us in our weakness.
poet, I don't quite understand the "judgement" and "hell" part of your post but I certainly don't believe that masturbation---or any sin can send a born-again child of God to hell.
As to married "consumation" I totally get how most might not understand it being an act of worship or that God has anything to do with it at all.....He reveals things to our hearts in His time and in accordance with our open hearts.
The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. I don't take that to be a good thing. Some people believe that masturbation is a sin. I do not believe that masturbation is a sin unto death. But if one is in sin and we know that sin separates us from God........draw your own conclusion. So those that apparently think that masturbation is a sin must believe that they are on their way to hell. I do think that there are sin/s can lead to hell. But that it is not our call to make. That is why there will be a Judgment Day of the Lord and HE will decide what to do with the soul of a person.
< Message edited by poetessfree -- 5/13/2009 10:54:40 AM >
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/13/2009 12:36:30 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 6726
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quote:
The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. I don't take that to be a good thing. Some people believe that masturbation is a sin. I do not believe that masturbation is a sin unto death. But if one is in sin and we know that sin separates us from God........draw your own conclusion. So those that apparently think that masturbation is a sin must believe that they are on their way to hell. I do think that there are sin/s can lead to hell. But that it is not our call to make. That is why there will be a Judgment Day of the Lord and HE will decide what to do with the soul of a person.
Yes the wages of sin is death. However, once we accept Christ's sacrifice on our part then no individual sin can send us to hell. We are already bought and sealed. OTOH, before we accept CHrist any little sin sends us to hell. So, a person who is a Christian and masturbates may be sinning but it's not going to send them to hell.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/13/2009 7:15:41 PM
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Gail7364
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quote:
Yes the wages of sin is death. However, once we accept Christ's sacrifice on our part then no individual sin can send us to hell. We are already bought and sealed. OTOH, before we accept CHrist any little sin sends us to hell. So, a person who is a Christian and masturbates may be sinning but it's not going to send them to hell.
I see that you are full-blown OSAS. I'm in the middle of that doctrine. I believe that a person can deliberately and with forethought turn their back on God and go out into sin and God will turn them over to a reprobate mind. That's in the Bible. It also says that a person can "fall away". You can't "fall away" if you weren't already there. But this isn't the OP to discuss that Doctrine.
IF masturbation is a sin in someone's mind, then they shouldn't do it. What is their punishment? I don't know, except maybe guilt, shame, and being separated from a close relationship with Jesus.
IF masturbation is not a sin in someone's mind, then they have no condemnation and can live their life in freedom from guilt and shame, which is why Jesus died on the cross.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/14/2009 12:13:00 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
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From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gail7364
IF masturbation is a sin in someone's mind, then they shouldn't do it. What is their punishment? I don't know, except maybe guilt, shame, and being separated from a close relationship with Jesus.
IF masturbation is not a sin in someone's mind, then they have no condemnation and can live their life in freedom from guilt and shame, which is why Jesus died on the cross.
I can agree with that....I just think it is important for everyone to understand, whether they see masturbation as sin or not, to realize that it is a sexual act. It is not merely a physiological response to hormones, unintentional stimuli etc. It is a deliberate sexual act.
That said, I believe God will speak to the heart of His children at the time they need to hear that it is or isn't sin. Once He does, if they continue (in any action He has convicted them of...not merely masturbation), it is sin to continue.
But I don't believe we can fool ourselves into believing that masturbation is in anyway equal to or the same as spontaneous orgasm. Masturbation is a deliberate act that one chooses to engage in, and while it is not sexual intercourse, it is a sexual behaviour.
Whether it is sin or not, only each individual can know what God convicts them of.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/15/2009 1:08:57 PM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 185
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quote:
Abortion is not listed in the Bible, yet it is sin..... Drug abuse is not listed in the Bible but it is sin...so to use that last sentence to defend something as not sin is not valid.
Yes, the Trinity is also not mentioned, the Trinity is not a grey area as much less murderer! Most Christians defend the Trinity - and Murderer and to kill is a clear "no no no"!
I did went away from this thread for a while, because of the mentioning of abortion (?) in a thread about masturbation. I do think that people brought up in abortion legal societies, where abortion is highly politicize has a very unique mindset,coming from those "pro-life or pro-choice"..anyways abortion is mentioned in the Bible indeed as although practic throu the ages people,religious ornot knew and still do,it is wrong to take a life in the womb. In countries were abortion remain illegall is by choice of their people, religious or secular,to it remain illegall.
I was brought up in one of those societies where abrtion remains illegal, non politicize and not so educated and rich as 1st world nation as USA. 
About defending something that is not mentioned in the Bible, I would position myself to automaticaly check the Scriptures and my own consciencies before God. Would strongly suggest people do the same.
About masturbation being sexual act..hummm.. people when "masturbating traditionaly" are privitaly striking their own genitalias, their sexual organs, not others, awaken or not (people while sleeping may rub or do whatever in their genitals also)...still, to my mindset and understanding - sex must involve another person's- body or "to borrow" a person in ones mind/imagination/fantasy, as lust/adultery uses someone to pleasure another not present in body.
My understanding and mindset do agree naturaly with the law and legal aspect and explanation of what a sexual act is as activity and people involve.
"SEXUAL ACT - Contact between the penis and the vulva or the penis and the anus, and for purposes of this subparagraph contact involving the penis occurs upon penetration, however slight; contact between the mouth and the penis, the mouth and the vulva, or the mouth and the anus; or the penetration, however slight, of the anal or genital opening of another by a hand or finger or by any object, with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person. 18 USC "
Another point that such subject is bringing is that personal mindsets may play is about transfering their own ways and preferences reggarding masturbation, pleasure, sex and etc to others, as if people are extensions of ourselves. There are lots of room to assumptions to be made, based on individuals experiences. We are not carbon copy of one another, but unique individuals.
Another thing is different traits and discoveries being made by sexual experts in the past decades, categorizing females in %. As some have not and will not experience any kind of sexual pleasure by any means. Other % have very little pleasure, as % have average and other % very sensitive. Women in general have lower steady libido then males, who has higher steady libidos as a gender. Based on different experts and research and % between women sexuality, women can greatly differ from one another, as experiences and individual make up goes, as sensitivity and plain libido. Libido by itself can make difference as who and how much are or not masturbating, to begin with.
Plus, throwing in the basquet the "propaganda that most women have no pleasure coming from intercourse"* but mostly outside sex genitalia stimulation, well to ladies where intercourse alone is their choice of personal "real sex" to engage with (that maybe seen in some circles as rarety to be "vaginal and not clitorial".. ), no outside stimulation by their parteners and much less masturbation with no partener will satisfy anyways. Than, masturbation in different individual cases is just a build uprelease and in no way to compare to real sex.
To equate pleasure/orgasm coming from masturbation as same as intercourse with spouse, is not talking for me and my experiences but by their own personal experiences -or- just talking back propaganda from feminist* experts or others experts with their own unique agendas.
It is very much important to keep in touch with real "me" inside us, to really knows where it stands reggarding anything, including pet habits, attachments, mindsets etcs. We must live with ourselves in peace, sleep with tranquil conscience, etc. Works ones own salvation as individuals, is our calling to keep pressing, as to run the race without weights and etc. Sure the Lord in us must have the freedom to keep examing us as we bring to him our issues and etc
Thanks, have you all a great weekend.
_____________________________
1 Peter 1
A Living Hope, and a Sure Salvation.This hope an anchor to the soul. Blessed be the Triuno Lord Almighty.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/16/2009 9:51:16 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
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Here are some links that discuss masturbation as a sexual act (don't worry...they are scientific and philosophical...NOT graphic):The Philosophy of Sex
Masturbation is the first sexual act experienced by most males and females...~~Dr.Robert S. Phillips, MD
Whether we agree or not, masturbation is a sexual act. I think the reason it disturbs us to think that is because many children do masturbate...but to be honest...even the secular sites do not consider it a sexual act in a child who has not been molested.....it is merely exploration....just like kids playing "doctor" is not the same as two teenagers doing the same. Doesn't mean you let it go unhindered....just means it is addressed differently.
< Message edited by W.O.F. -- 5/16/2009 10:00:40 PM >
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/16/2009 10:57:04 PM
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ta_mosquito
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tinydancer - where did that definition come from?
My guess is that it was a definition for a policy on sexual abuse, sexual assault, etc. which means that it would focus on two-person sexual acts.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/18/2009 12:47:39 PM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 185
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
tinydancer - where did that definition come from?
My guess is that it was a definition for a policy on sexual abuse, sexual assault, etc. which means that it would focus on two-person sexual acts.
I found by "asking search" about "sex act" and it shows: LINK
I do think the definition is very inclusive as just point out what sex act means and period and the "consequences" for each action..as it mention when 2 are involved by consent and not, when its intent is crime and when leads to pleasure. To me is very clear and make sense the law itself rule out masturbation and person holding their own genitals and ding it so in private also. Now, if people try masturbate in public for sure is a crime as indecent exposures and etc etc I do think that masturbation that is private, and done by a single person is between person and God, because only God can see the intensions of peoples heart. When things becomes problematic, out of control, in any are of ur lives, the tendency is to spill outside and "fruits" of it will show up, come outside not hidden anymore, to be faced etc...in my oppinion and observations is what I find out in my life and others. Hopefuly all would ask for help from God,not hide from Him(its impossible as we all know, soon or later) and to ask help from others, who are really well prepered to help and "not mess up"
I found "wet dreams", researching by the same way and 1st option lead me to wikipidea. I generaly have to search and research for slangs and expression as to find out what culture means and if its same in my mother tongue,culture etc.
Because I am not formaly educated and know most things by my ow experience,observations in life and bit reading and etc I do borrow others "ready writtings" to make easier fr me to explain my positions, I have not much good grip in English gramatics as you all can observe..  to writte well to all english people understand me naturaly as they would.Still lacking on gramatics and wrtitting department do not stop to express and try to express my positions. In the case of legal explanation of what sex act means it translate my own position about that: sex act must involve 2 persons, there must be an object of desire. As much I like myself very much, it is not in me to see possible "having sex" with myself by "traditional masturbation"..to have sex I would need another being=man, and not any men,because most men are not attractive to look, by my selective inside process, very few can become potential for my life partener "material". To me my genitals, is another functional part of me doint its "job", glued on me, "no surprises there" as it occupies its place's being taking care as all other organs of mine are for 40 up years, of course I learned to know my body as many have.
Conclusion: my position reggarding masturbation remains the same as 1st post, as some masturbation activities are sin because involve another person as object of desire and lust. As masturbation can become very early in youngs people lives a habit and addiction by means of loolking at porn or by substitute of what is lacking in a persons life. As any regular activity can become addiction as work, shop, eat, drink and etc There are vast layers and "why" a person may engage and form habits and addictions that may interfere with their lives and people have issues and no peace or good consciences reggarding it.
I do pray that we keep trusting in God because He is such God Good Abba and we do have real real Friend and our best perfect Brother Lord Jesus and The Holy Spirit in us resident Teacher leading us to all truth the whole open up Scriptures, transforming us through life long process. I do know that because as the Samaritan at well, or Alabastar box Mary, me too did live to tell what He alone, has done for me! The Lord do come where we are and engage us in real meaninful conversations, so much so according to truth as He says in Scripture, by grace by His merits as He is the One who 1st loved us, there is nothing in us but all His..as He introduces Himself, we are accept in the Beloved, when we surrender to Him we are forever safe. Those who were much forgiven do love much indeed.
Have you all great week.
Having not internet acess regular connection etc when I post I write about much in 1 single post,etc..thanks.
_____________________________
1 Peter 1
A Living Hope, and a Sure Salvation.This hope an anchor to the soul. Blessed be the Triuno Lord Almighty.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/18/2009 1:29:20 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 6726
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Nobody has said it is a sex act. They have said it is a sexUAL act. There is a difference. They are not the same thing.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/18/2009 1:30:38 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Nobody has said it is a sex act. They have said it is a sexUAL act. There is a difference. They are not the same thing.
exactly....
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/19/2009 12:41:35 AM
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MerciesFailNot
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Hmmm.......it took a while, but I've read through this entire thread. A person doesn't usually find this type of conversation on a Christian forum, but it's a good thing to discuss all topics, IMO.
I hadn't really thought much about it, but I tend to think that masturbation is neither a sex act nor a sexual act. I agree with the posters who say that it is just a physical release of a natural need. Unless, of course, a person uses pornography or other sinful things and then it is obviously a sin. Or if their thoughts are lustful or sinful, then it is a sin. otherwise, it isnt a sin. I mean, sex between a husband and wife can be made into a sin if they do sinful things in the process like viewing porn or thinking lustful thoughts during the time.
Guess it's all in the thoughts and intent of the heart.
Just my opinion.
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/19/2009 9:54:34 AM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
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From: an ignoble beginning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MerciesFailNot
Hmmm.......it took a while, but I've read through this entire thread. A person doesn't usually find this type of conversation on a Christian forum, but it's a good thing to discuss all topics, IMO.
I hadn't really thought much about it, but I tend to think that masturbation is neither a sex act nor a sexual act. I agree with the posters who say that it is just a physical release of a natural need. Unless, of course, a person uses pornography or other sinful things and then it is obviously a sin. Or if their thoughts are lustful or sinful, then it is a sin. otherwise, it isnt a sin. I mean, sex between a husband and wife can be made into a sin if they do sinful things in the process like viewing porn or thinking lustful thoughts during the time.
Guess it's all in the thoughts and intent of the heart.
Just my opinion.
The only problem with seeing it as a release of a physical need is, especially for women, it often FEEDS the need (as in causes the need to grow) rather than releasing it.
A lot of studies have shown that especially in women, the more they masturbate (even without porn etc)...the more they NEED to....the more they restrain themselves from doing so...the lower their NEED...
I just have to agree with psychologists, doctors and sex therapists who call it a sexual act because it meets a sexual need.
sorry...orgasm is not a need outside of our sexual persons for the most part, and most or the time the body will cause spontaneous orgasm for those times when it really is needed.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/19/2009 2:04:48 PM
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MerciesFailNot
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In my opinion, it can only be sexual if a person has a partner. You can't have sex by yourself. How could you?
Porn and fantasies are wrong and sinful either alone or with a partner/spouse. So we can rule that out.
Spontaneous orgasms (like in ones sleep) can't be helped, so I guess there's no need to discuss that either.
So to me, the disagreement is whether masturbating is having sex. I don't feel like it is. Is it sexual? Again, I don't feel like it is.
I think it was Gail in a few posts above who said that she can honestly say that she is not having sex and therefore not committing sin because she is single. (if i understand her correctly.) And I think that she is right. A single person is staying pure if they are not having sex or sexual experiences with another person.
I haven't engaged in this practice because I don't need to, but if I were single and never planned on getting married again (like Gail said) and still had those natural feelings, I would probably do what Gail is doing to relieve those feelings. As long as there is no porn or sinful, lustful thoughts, it isn't sin.
I can't imagine that masturbating gives pleasure that comes even close to the pleasure one receives with a partner/spouse. Sex with the one you love has so many aspects that masturbating doesnt have. With another person there is the love, closeness, oneness, joint pleasure, after-glow, and joy that lasts for hours. It brings peace and good health. I would think that all masturbating does is relieve the physical need. Period.
I don't know if I am making any sense, but I do understand what Gail and other are saying about it not being sex or sexual and them not feeling bad or sinful.
It's such a personal thing, I find myself surprised that I'm even discussing it!
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/19/2009 2:51:33 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 286
Joined: 12/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MerciesFailNot
In my opinion, it can only be sexual if a person has a partner. You can't have sex by yourself. How could you?
Porn and fantasies are wrong and sinful either alone or with a partner/spouse. So we can rule that out.
Spontaneous orgasms (like in ones sleep) can't be helped, so I guess there's no need to discuss that either.
So to me, the disagreement is whether masturbating is having sex. I don't feel like it is. Is it sexual? Again, I don't feel like it is.
I think it was Gail in a few posts above who said that she can honestly say that she is not having sex and therefore not committing sin because she is single. (if i understand her correctly.) And I think that she is right. A single person is staying pure if they are not having sex or sexual experiences with another person.
I haven't engaged in this practice because I don't need to, but if I were single and never planned on getting married again (like Gail said) and still had those natural feelings, I would probably do what Gail is doing to relieve those feelings. As long as there is no porn or sinful, lustful thoughts, it isn't sin.
I can't imagine that masturbating gives pleasure that comes even close to the pleasure one receives with a partner/spouse. Sex with the one you love has so many aspects that masturbating doesnt have. With another person there is the love, closeness, oneness, joint pleasure, after-glow, and joy that lasts for hours. It brings peace and good health. I would think that all masturbating does is relieve the physical need. Period.
I don't know if I am making any sense, but I do understand what Gail and other are saying about it not being sex or sexual and them not feeling bad or sinful.
It's such a personal thing, I find myself surprised that I'm even discussing it!
Your post is insightful! This topic comes up every blue moon in churches/conferences I've frequented and we quickly shush it away because we are ashamed or guilty or both. I think that discussing this will free some people, amen. As a matter of fact, I went to a women's summit this past Saturday and the pastor was saying something about casting out the spirit of masturbation. I thought that now people who masturbate are possessed . Oddly, I only hear this from women pastors. I have never ever heard a male pastor speak on masturbation. I wonder why...scratches chin....
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: Masturbation-women - 5/19/2009 3:18:52 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 487
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MerciesFailNot
In my opinion, it can only be sexual if a person has a partner. You can't have sex by yourself. How could you? SexUAL does not require a partner.....intercouse does. You can dress in a sexually explicit manner...but it does not require a partner for that to be a sexual act....
SexUAL arousal does not require a 'partner'...
Masturbation is not SEX...but it is sexUAL.
quote:
Porn and fantasies are wrong and sinful either alone or with a partner/spouse. So we can rule that out.
Spontaneous orgasms (like in ones sleep) can't be helped, so I guess there's no need to discuss that either.
So to me, the disagreement is whether masturbating is having sex. I don't feel like it is. Is it sexual? Again, I don't feel like it is. Masturbating is NOT sex...but it is sexual..and doctors, psychologists, sex therapists, etc define it as a sexUAL act.
quote:
I think it was Gail in a few posts above who said that she can honestly say that she is not having sex and therefore not committing sin because she is single. (if i understand her correctly.) And I think that she is right. A single person is staying pure if they are not having sex or sexual experiences with another person.
but you said that porn is wrong...why? there is no other person actually involved.... reading a romance novel (verbal porn) does not involve another person...so it must be okay? Intercourse and oral sex require another person, masturbation does not...but it is still sexual. It causes a sexual response, and releases sexual tension. If there wasn't sexual tension..there would be no need for release.
quote:
I haven't engaged in this practice because I don't need to, but if I were single and never planned on getting married again (like Gail said) and still had those natural feelings, I would probably do what Gail is doing to relieve those feelings. As long as there is no porn or sinful, lustful thoughts, it isn't sin.
Please define for me what those "natural" feelings are...if they are not the need for sexual release?
quote:
I can't imagine that masturbating gives pleasure that comes even close to the pleasure one receives with a partner/spouse. Sex with the one you love has so many aspects that masturbating doesnt have. With another person there is the love, closeness, oneness, joint pleasure, after-glow, and joy that lasts for hours. It brings peace and good health. I would think that all masturbating does is relieve the physical need. Period. There are a lot of people who sleep around (no one here) to release those natural feelings and they do not get the intimacy of marital sex. No one said that masturbating gives you the intimacy of marital sex...but for some women it actually causes more intense orgasms than actual intercourse.
We keep talking about releasing these feelings...why don't we just be blatently honest and call it what it is....the need for an orgasm. Orgasms are, as a general rule, sexually obtained, except for the cases of wet dreams and spontaneous orgasms.
Orgasms are sexual. Masturbation is sexual.
Sexual acts are not all sexual intercourse (sex), but that does not mean that they are not sexual.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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