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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/26/2009 4:13:19 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 412
Joined: 8/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
On a bit of a side note, how many on this thread have actually had encounters with angels?
Hebrews 13:1-2 "Let brotherly love continue. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unaware."
Is this head knowledge, or an experience?
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RE: Why not trust an angel? - 1/27/2009 8:27:29 AM
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earthless
Posts: 2595
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is Scripture. It's very possible I have dealt with angels and not even known it. Lord knows I think my mom is an angel. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
How about encounter that you know for sure??? I agree that everything should line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That I know for sure? Nope.
Does that mean I never have? Possibly not.
Feelings and knowing as an absolute are two entirely different things.
To me it's not important whether you know it or not. It's up to God to let me know if that encounter was with an angel.
Since angels are set to minister to those that have salvation, what do you think that they do? Just wondering?
I believe they do what Scripture says they do. They praise God (Psalm 148:1, 2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (Job 38:6-7).
They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1).
They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10).
They aid in winning people to Christ (Acts 8:26; 10:3). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12).
They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23, 24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).
Angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings.
God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). The greatest thing we can learn from the angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands.
sled, please let me know if you have any other questions. God bless.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/27/2009 9:52:32 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3349
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
There is no explanation for the last song, Fly, except that during the "do you see what I see" portion you will hear a soaring voice over the top of the other voices (6 minutes and 11 seconds into this section). At first we thought it was an ambient microphone picking up an overtone. During mixing all of the channels were searched and we found that this 'boys choir' type voice was not on any of the other microphones, but was bleeding through my own microphone ( which would make it impossible for it to be an overtone because it was not present on any of the other microphones).
I listened to that portion several times. I don't hear a soaring "boys choir" type voice. I hear what sounds to me like distortion. I hear people hearing what they want to hear.
In my opinion this is just like the "orbs" that photo's have picked up and many claim to be angels when it's really just a known light/camera phenomena.
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/27/2009 8:14:49 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2620
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
You know, a couple of weeks ago, our worship leader was leading worship at our high school chapel when hundreds of kids spontaneously filed out of the auditorium to the fountain outside and started getting baptized. No prodding, no fanfare...just a true move of the Holy Spirit which was the result of pure worship with the focus on Jesus Christ. When I walked out of my office and saw what was happening I started to cry, because the presence of the Lord was so strong.
Now, that's what I'm talkin' about!!
Ah, I see. Your anecdotal evidence is true, but God forbid we believe the anectdotal evidence from Jason Upton, the sound engineers, or any of the other people that were there when it happened. 
Some American Christians are so closed minded, so afraid of anything different than their little denomination and personal opinions when it comes to worshipping God, it is sad. Do you think angels just stand stoically by when God's children are pouring out their hearts to him? I think it is porbably more likely that they are exuberant and eager to join in. Guess what? Angels are real. God speaks through dreams and visions. Some people really do speak in toungues. Some people really do get supernaturally healed. Should those things be the entire basis of our faith? No, but they sure are cool perks.
Even sadder is the folks here who are passing their haughty judgments on a man and his music who have never listened to even one song from the guy. The comment about Jason trying to make money off of a gimmick is one of the most hilarious displays of ignorance... anyone who actually knows the guy will have a good chuckle over that one.
You may not like his voice or have aversion to such a free form of worship, but he is an extremely gifted musician who loves Jesus, worships in spirit and truth, and leads others to do the same. I wish folks would stop using personal preference as their standard for what "real" worship is.
Maybe some people should actually try listening to some of his stuff. Here is one of his "classics", Lion of Judah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWpQ67J130g
Listen to that and tell me something doesn't stir in your spirit.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/27/2009 9:23:00 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2595
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is Scripture. It's very possible I have dealt with angels and not even known it. Lord knows I think my mom is an angel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
How about encounter that you know for sure??? I agree that everything should line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That I know for sure? Nope.
Does that mean I never have? Possibly not.
Feelings and knowing as an absolute are two entirely different things.
To me it's not important whether you know it or not. It's up to God to let me know if that encounter was with an angel.
Since angels are set to minister to those that have salvation, what do you think that they do? Just wondering?
I believe they do what Scripture says they do. They praise God (Psalm 148:1, 2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (Job 38:6-7).
They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1).
They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10).
They aid in winning people to Christ (Acts 8:26; 10:3). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12).
They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23, 24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).
Angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings.
God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). The greatest thing we can learn from the angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands.
sled, please let me know if you have any other questions. God bless.
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 2:50:15 AM
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sledmt
Posts: 412
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is Scripture. It's very possible I have dealt with angels and not even known it. Lord knows I think my mom is an angel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
How about encounter that you know for sure??? I agree that everything should line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That I know for sure? Nope.
Does that mean I never have? Possibly not.
Feelings and knowing as an absolute are two entirely different things.
To me it's not important whether you know it or not. It's up to God to let me know if that encounter was with an angel.
Since angels are set to minister to those that have salvation, what do you think that they do? Just wondering?
I believe they do what Scripture says they do. They praise God (Psalm 148:1, 2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (Job 38:6-7).
They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1).
They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10).
They aid in winning people to Christ (Acts 8:26; 10:3). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12).
They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23, 24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).
Angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings.
God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). The greatest thing we can learn from the angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands.
sled, please let me know if you have any other questions. God bless.
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
nice name: themoody"experience"
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 2:56:53 AM
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sledmt
Posts: 412
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
You know, a couple of weeks ago, our worship leader was leading worship at our high school chapel when hundreds of kids spontaneously filed out of the auditorium to the fountain outside and started getting baptized. No prodding, no fanfare...just a true move of the Holy Spirit which was the result of pure worship with the focus on Jesus Christ. When I walked out of my office and saw what was happening I started to cry, because the presence of the Lord was so strong.
Now, that's what I'm talkin' about!!
Ah, I see. Your anecdotal evidence is true, but God forbid we believe the anectdotal evidence from Jason Upton, the sound engineers, or any of the other people that were there when it happened.
Some American Christians are so closed minded, so afraid of anything different than their little denomination and personal opinions when it comes to worshipping God, it is sad. Do you think angels just stand stoically by when God's children are pouring out their hearts to him? I think it is porbably more likely that they are exuberant and eager to join in. Guess what? Angels are real. God speaks through dreams and visions. Some people really do speak in toungues. Some people really do get supernaturally healed. Should those things be the entire basis of our faith? No, but they sure are cool perks.
Even sadder is the folks here who are passing their haughty judgments on a man and his music who have never listened to even one song from the guy. The comment about Jason trying to make money off of a gimmick is one of the most hilarious displays of ignorance... anyone who actually knows the guy will have a good chuckle over that one.
You may not like his voice or have aversion to such a free form of worship, but he is an extremely gifted musician who loves Jesus, worships in spirit and truth, and leads others to do the same. I wish folks would stop using personal preference as their standard for what "real" worship is.
Maybe some people should actually try listening to some of his stuff. Here is one of his "classics", Lion of Judah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWpQ67J130g
Listen to that and tell me something doesn't stir in your spirit.
Good video.
People need to be careful how they define a move of God. When people start saying what is a move of God and is not, is about the time when the Lord will come in an offencing form just to see if we are paying attention to the Spirit.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 4:58:18 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2595
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is Scripture. It's very possible I have dealt with angels and not even known it. Lord knows I think my mom is an angel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
How about encounter that you know for sure??? I agree that everything should line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That I know for sure? Nope.
Does that mean I never have? Possibly not.
Feelings and knowing as an absolute are two entirely different things.
To me it's not important whether you know it or not. It's up to God to let me know if that encounter was with an angel.
Since angels are set to minister to those that have salvation, what do you think that they do? Just wondering?
I believe they do what Scripture says they do. They praise God (Psalm 148:1, 2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (Job 38:6-7).
They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1).
They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10).
They aid in winning people to Christ (Acts 8:26; 10:3). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12).
They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23, 24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).
Angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings.
God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). The greatest thing we can learn from the angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands.
sled, please let me know if you have any other questions. God bless.
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
nice name: themoody"experience"
Which is a humorous take on my last name. Scripture verses and alleged angel experiences are serious business. If you want to take the discussion that way, be my guest, I just won't be following.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 5:01:01 PM
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sledmt
Posts: 412
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That is Scripture. It's very possible I have dealt with angels and not even known it. Lord knows I think my mom is an angel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
How about encounter that you know for sure??? I agree that everything should line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
That I know for sure? Nope.
Does that mean I never have? Possibly not.
Feelings and knowing as an absolute are two entirely different things.
To me it's not important whether you know it or not. It's up to God to let me know if that encounter was with an angel.
Since angels are set to minister to those that have salvation, what do you think that they do? Just wondering?
I believe they do what Scripture says they do. They praise God (Psalm 148:1, 2; Isaiah 6:3). They worship God (Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-13). They rejoice in what God does (Job 38:6-7).
They serve God (Psalm 103:20; Revelation 22:9). They appear before God (Job 1:6; 2:1).
They are instruments of God's judgments (Revelation 7:1; 8:2). They bring answers to prayer (Acts 12:5-10).
They aid in winning people to Christ (Acts 8:26; 10:3). They observe Christian order, work, and suffering (1 Corinthians 4:9; 11:10; Ephesians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:12).
They encourage in times of danger (Acts 27:23, 24). They care for the righteous at the time of death (Luke 16:22).
Angels are an entirely different order of being than humans. Human beings do not become angels after they die. Angels will never become, and never were, human beings.
God created the angels, just as He created humanity. The Bible nowhere states that angels are created in the image and likeness of God, as humans are (Genesis 1:26). The greatest thing we can learn from the angels is their instant, unquestioning obedience to God’s commands.
sled, please let me know if you have any other questions. God bless.
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
nice name: themoody"experience"
Which is a humorous take on my last name. Scripture verses and alleged angel experiences are serious business. If you want to take the discussion that way, be my guest, I just won't be following.
themoody"experience" I thought you don't believe in experiences.
Serious like this statement:
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 5:10:02 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 2595
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
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First off...TheMoodyExperience is a play on the Jimi Hendrix album title. I used it as my handle on other things long before I joined Crosswalk. Its just a screenname.
Second...I do not discount experiences. The problem arises when so many people rant and rave about their 'experiences' to the point where they invite doubt about its authenticity. I believe fewer people have experiences than say they do and the rest mostly do it for attention or profit. I know if I had an experience with what I knew was angel I would not go run and tell everybody I met. It would be a sacred experience for me that I would thank my Heavenly Father for. My first instinct would not be to run write a book or hold a conference on angels. But that's jus me; I'm a man and I look on the outside....God looks on the heart.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 5:11:34 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 1980
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sledmt
themoody"experience" I thought you don't believe in experiences.
Serious like this statement:
Why trust verses when there are experiences to be had?
If he were calling himself "My_angel_experience" you might have something.
_____________________________
Now, don't become discouraged - we have scratched merely the surface of this mine, for its great wealth! We can't expect the sight of gold at the first few turns of the shovel!
-The Major in Our Boarding House by Gene Ahern, June 22, 1934
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/28/2009 8:13:06 PM
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earthless
Posts: 2595
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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sled,
I trust you have no further questions regarding angels and their purpose?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/29/2009 2:31:46 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2620
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SirWintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Ah, I see. Your anecdotal evidence is true, but God forbid we believe the anectdotal evidence from Jason Upton, the sound engineers, or any of the other people that were there when it happened.
When what happened? When they announced an angel sang on Upton's recording? An angel should at least have the decency to get their union card from the American Federation of Musicians before they start appearing in the studio. 
Hah! That was funny 
Seriously though, I was referring to the people who were there feeling the awesome presence of God, the people who saw the angel, the people who heard the angel, etc.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 1/29/2009 12:42:51 PM
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elastic
Posts: 1490
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: NYC
Status: offline
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plus, than angel was out of tune...(as was Mr. Upton for most of that song) i expect the Heavenly Choir to be of a more professional sort...after all, they aren't human and subject to pitchiness. but of course, that is IMHO.
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 2/5/2009 2:14:53 PM
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spasquel
Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2009
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Wow, this thread.....
I've never heard of this Upton fellow nor any of these 'break-off' churches/groups.
Out of interest I have skimmed some sites on 'Rain', & Upton- listened to the testimony of the attendees during the recording/ listened to the track , etc.
Little background on my upbringing:
Raised in Southern Baptist Churches my entire life. Each of my parents come from the same backgrounds.
That said, I am a little shocked at the tone of this thread in general.....
Reading posts of judgements placed on different groupings of self proclaimed Christians really has me at a loss.
Could the ideas expressed here be similar to the feelings that the Jews had when they were told of the Gentiles/Christians coming into their religion and receiving the blessings of their God? Do you think they were elated that 'we' added to their Holy Book and made it our own? Let's really take a minute and think about this.
As a follower of Christ, I wouldn't care if another group of believers feel it necessary to roll around in the mud to glorify Christ. As long as Christ is the center & follow his teachings, I have no problem. It is not my place to judge anothers relationship with the Savior. Look at how many mainstream Christian branches there are.....no one can say that only one of these branches is the only correct one. Look through History, each one of these groups were looked down upon by the other when they were first starting out. Is there a cutoff? Is there only the elected amount of branches allowed to gather and worship the Lord how they chose?? Each branch left the main one to worship Christ how they wanted to! And Christ says that when 2 or more are gathered, I am there. Period. He doesn't say, I am there after so many hymns have been sung. He doesn't say, I am there but only after that collection plate has been past. He doesn't say, I am there only between the middle of the 'church' announcements and the alter call. HE IS THERE INSTANTLY AT THE GATHERING OF TWO OR MORE OF HIS CHILREN. All of the rest is MAN MADE. The whole show....bada bing.
I feel that each grouping holds a truth that the others refuse to validate. As a Baptist, you have to baptized along with accepting Christ into your heart, does that mean that those believers who don't are going to make it?? That's silly. The only thing that would keep a person from the Lord is not to accept His gift. As a believer in Christ, we all have something to add.
On the topic of ANGELS:
The widespread disbelief that this song could possibly contain angelic voices, is shocking.
I don't understand why its far easier for people to recognize demons on this earth, but not angels. We are all surrounded by unseen things GOOD & EVIL.
It would be interesting to poll the posters of this thread and see how many believe more in the actions of demons verses the actions of angels.....my hope is that it would honestly break even, but I have my doubts.
If the same posters on this thread were living in the times of Moses, would these same posters be screaming 'fakery'? I would hope not.
As far as this guy being connected to 'questionable' groups with differing theology, aren't there numerous stories of ministry that reach soon-to-be believers in Christ in odd ways? We've been told God works in mysterious ways!
If one group is 'deemed' ecentric due to their concentration on the Apocalypse then should some others be judged for the lack? It's all God's story, is it not?
As humans, we cling to the familiar. To what we are comfortable with. Some like their worship more lowkey, solemn like. Others like to worship with dancing and raising of their hands. Non of that matters. It's a choice.
As far as 'being filled with the Spirit', feelings of such elation that "it felt like something else was playing my guitar besides me" (a prior post)....is the equivalent of King DAVID dancing uncontrolably during the moving of the ARK. No difference people.
I'm sure we've all attended 'Revial' services that have differed extremely. Ones where only a few attend the alter call & then others where there are too many to count!
On the topic of collecting money, that somehow the spilling of this experience is solely to drive up CD sales, angers me.
EVERY PASTOR, PRIEST, RABBI, MUSIC LEADER, YOUTH LEADER, ANYONE IN CHURCH LEADERSHIP COLLECTS A SALERY, lest we forgot about; DVD SALES OF THEIR SERMONS, BOOKS, AUDIO RECORDINGS, SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS etc. There isn't a church service you have attended who hasn't passed the plate!
My last opinion is on how unfortunate it is to have a forum dedicated to believers to discuss and learn from each other, to then question the hearts of each other when it's not in our job description. Healthy debates I look forward to, but judgements on those we don't know is unChristian-like. As for Upton, the only thing that I have read on here is just a connection to groups being deemed untrustworthy.......Nothing unChrist-like about that in my opinion.
We are living in interesting times, and although we have yet to be fortunate to physically witness what God can truly do in this world, I look forward to witnessing his miracles in the flesh, just as the awesome events that took place in our Holy Bible..................Bring on those angelic voices be it earthly or of the Heavens, Lord!
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RE: Jason Upton Singing With An Angel? - 2/5/2009 3:30:42 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 1980
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spasquel
Wow, this thread.....
I've never heard of this Upton fellow nor any of these 'break-off' churches/groups.
...
Reading posts of judgements placed on different groupings of self proclaimed Christians really has me at a loss.
A really lame recording, with a story of supernatural occurrences--which one is backing up the other?
Is the recording so angelic that the story must be believed? No. Experienced people in this thread say otherwise.
Is the story so Scriptural and compelling that the recording must be believed? No. Experienced, educated, thoughtful people in this thread say otherwise and more than one has shown in related threads a Scriptural examination of the movement in question.
It isn't done flippantly. It is done with concern.
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Now, don't become discouraged - we have scratched merely the surface of this mine, for its great wealth! We can't expect the sight of gold at the first few turns of the shovel!
-The Major in Our Boarding House by Gene Ahern, June 22, 1934
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