How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (Full Version)

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John_O -> How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 9:52:35 AM)

I was looking through some older threads and came across

Who is more unrealistic: Men or Women? post 45 where the question was asked, What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.

So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?

Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:09:10 AM)

quote:

If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?


It depends on what part of "what I are" you are talking about. Nobody stays the same, nothing stays the same, change is inevitable and is generally desirable so I'm not sure that it's a good goal to stay what I was at 1 point in time forever and ever. I like to think that 10 years from now, I'll have grown a lot, learned a lot and as a result will have changed at least some. I wouldn't work hard to avoid that at all.

The only tangible thing that might make sense for me to try to keep the same would be weight, I suppose. And again, I'm just not sure how realistic it would have been for me to fool myself or my spouse into thinking that I could keep my 19 year old figure till I'm 65. Unless I committed to devoting a very large amount of time to diet and exercise, I'm not sure I could do it....and given the differences in body types etc. it might turn out to be that the amount of effort and planning and stuff that I would have to do to keep at a size 10 is far too time consuming to be healthy. Might not, I don't know. Just saying for a number of potential reasons I could see even that being something that I'd not want to committ too.

Even internally, I don't want to "not change". I want to change for the better and not regress...but still change must come.

Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?

Probably not.

I certainly don't believe in the opposite either. I wouldn't get or marry a man expecting him to BECOME the man I want. If he ain't the man I want to begin with, well I'll leave him be and go find the man I want. I know he'll change, that's life. But it may or may not be in any of the areas that I would most prefer change.



Grace-N-Mercy -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:34:37 AM)

I believe that we are who we are prior to coming into a marriage, and that person has accepted us for who we are. We will change, but hopefully we will change together, strengthening the relationship.

That said, there are some things we can easily change. And if it's for the benefit of the other person, we should. Christ has called us to put away our selfishness and to put on a new self. If we do that in our Christian walk, we should certainly do that in a marriage. As a mother, I have certainly had to push away my own needs and wants, and even my own perceptions for the good of my family. Things that I don't think are important because they're not important to me, may be very important to him. I learn what he likes and I do those things. He may not necessarily reciprocate, and that's fine. In a marriage, both people give to each other, and it becomes more like a dance. It's not "if you do for me, then I'll do for you" or "if I do for you, then I expect you to do something for me." That's selfishness. I like to do things secretly, for someone to get a blessing from something I've done. Or do something unexpected.

Looking back over your post, I was thinking about people who like for their spouse to stay, or become, slim. If that's important to them (as it is for some men), I would try my hardest, but it would not become an obsession for me. I would try to look at it as a gift I could give my husband. But I hope he would reciprocate. After all, if I'm going to sacrifice by eating salads every day, I think he'll be eating salads too [:D]



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:01:57 AM)

grace-n-mercy,

You just jogged another thought in my head. I can easily change what I do and wouldn't have any problem changing or NOT changing many simple aspects of what I do to please my spouse. What I do and what I "are" aren't really the same to me.

I can change a good bit of what I do for anyone that I love or who needs me to change for some valid reason. I don't know if I can change or not change what I am to please anybody, really.

I remember when I was married. This was an area of contention at times. I wasn't really what my husband wanted in too many ways to count (and no I never pretended to be anybody but regular old Lynn). It was easy enough for me to change my actions for his benefit, but we both knew that this was not quite the same thing as me BEING who he evidently hoped that I was.

Ex. Girly frilly stuff. I can very easily gir up for ya. I look spectacular when I put on make up, heels, dressy clothes, etc. [sm=icon_smile_kisses.gif] And I can do it for his benefit...but it's like when I walk in the door my nature just automatically propels me to start tossing things and to grab a pair of sweats ASAP. I didn't complain about wearing stuffy stuff at all or have a problem with doing it...it was just apparent that I was way more comfortable in much less finery. And sometimes I didn't know stuff that he thought all girls should just know because I wasn't that kind of girl. Or the fact that it's not an automatic desire or pleasure producing feeling for me to go to the hair place. I'll do it if I have too, but it's not my pref. He would be mad, not because my effort wasn't enough, but because it had to be an effort at all. I could understand that...and tried to get myself to think that way...but really I don't know how to do that successfully.

Movie and music preferences. He likes action, drama and deep stuff. I watched lots of that with him because he likes it and won't complain about it. I can watch, but I can't make myself enjoy watching one human shoot another. It was things like that that I sometimes remember when I think about changing for a spouse. I remember watching some crazy movie about an investigator trying to find out if a "snuff" film (film where a girl is tortured and killed or something) was real or not. I could make myself watch that movie because we had paid the money to get into the theatre and I didn't have another ride home....but no part of me could see any entertainment value in watching something so horrible and every part of me was rather disturbed that this person that I love actually finds this to be entertaining or enjoyable. [&o] I was very sad. Actually, I do think that we may have argued about that one, so maybe it's not a good example of me being able to do it but not feel it. But anyways...it really broke my heart that he liked it. Now, he could have easily said that he would never try to force me to watch such a movie again, but the fact remains that this movie was entertaining to him. That's the part that bothered the both of us and the part that no one can change for another person. He hated that I hated that movie and I hated that he liked it.

You can change (or not change) what you do...but changing what you are is strictly a God thing I suspect.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:14:26 AM)

When I posted this I was primarily thinking physically (based on the fixer-upper / move-inable dichotomy from the linked thread).

A man normally finds the woman he wants to marry and expects her to stay (within some reason) that way. If she has long hair, he normally likes her to keep her hair long, if she's slim, he likes her to stay slim. etc.

As I understand it a woman looks at a man and thinks more along the lines of, "with the right clothes and a hair cut he'd be pretty good. and if I can just get him to stop doing (insert habit of your choice here)"

Internally we are all supposed to grow in the Lord and become better.


I've always believed that my body belongs to my spouse, so, within reason*, I tried to keep it as she likes it.

*When we were engaged Michele talked me into getting a perm because she wanted more wave in my hair. I figure, "I love this girl, what can it hurt" so I do it.

Well she takes me to her friend the beautician and they start the process. They do a hair cut. No problem. Then she takes three hairs at a time, rolls them on to teeny tiny rollers until my eyes can no longer be closed due to the tension on my scalp. Then they put a cotton rope around me, pour the acid on and laugh at me as the smoke rises.

I'm sitting there saying "ladies this really, really hurts" and they respond with "Oh you're such a wimp, We've had this done lots of times. It doesn't hurt."

Well when they finally had mercy and neutralized it they found my entire scalp acid burned, with red stripes down my face and neck everywhere it dripped (apparently I am very sensitive to this stuff). I was in pain for days. To top it off I felt that I looked like a fruit. I had way too much curl for me. Took weeks to grow out enough that I could leave my house again.

So, within reason means, among other things, no perms for this boy!



p31woman -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:27:42 AM)

Ha! That's a hilarious story! [:D]

As far as the OP in reference to physical stuff, I think brides have the wrong idea. If I were to marry, I wouldn't go on any kind of diet or Bridal Bootcamp-- I'd do the exact opposite. Get a little heavier and a little out of shape. That way, the first time he sees my body it won't be at some super-buff level that I might not be able to maintain, and any improvement after that will wow him. [8D]



Grace-N-Mercy -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:36:01 AM)

Ouch!! That must've hurt. I've only had one perm in my life, and it didn't bother me, but I know some people can't tolerate it. Sorry you had such a painful experience. It's a good thing perms are no longer "in" for guys.

If I were to gain weight after becoming married, I'd probably feel bad for my husband, and so would try to take the weight off. And not just for him, but because it's healther. One particularly stressful year, I put on about 30 pounds and was able to take it off in about 6 months.

As for the hair, I recently donated 10" to Locks of Love. My hair was the longest it had ever been, but my boyfriend at the time rarely said anything about my hair. Still, I put off the decision to have it cut. So, after we broke up, I finally had it cut. It's a short bob and I LOVE it - so much easier to take care of. Still, if my husband (or even fiance) wanted me to have long hair, I would have it long again.



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:54:45 AM)

Okay, I gotcha...just appearances. I still think it's setting yourself up for disappointment.

quote:

A man normally finds the woman he wants to marry and expects her to stay (within some reason) that way. If she has long hair, he normally likes her to keep her hair long, if she's slim, he likes her to stay slim. etc.


Too restrictive I think. I mean...keep long hair for years and years? I don't know, why wouldn't you want your spouse to have a little variety in thier head if they wanted it. I mean, I can appreciate someone liking long hair and I can understand the other person wearing it long because hubby likes it. But to actually expect that she won't change her hair? And weight...well, I dunno. It sounds reasonable but I personally don't know anybody who at 60, 50 or even 40 is the same as what they were at 20. Wait, I do know 1 person who is like that here at work. She is a very thin lady. So, out of more than 100 women I know 1 for sure who stayed slim. Sounds to me like weight management is way harder than talking about it so I'd certainly not commit to it because I'm not sure if I could do it. I'm in my 20's now so I know I've got motabolism and age on my side (though I'm still overweight). Once I hit 35, I can't make too many promises to nobody and anyone I'd marry between now and then will have to accept that. If he is honest and indicates that he does expect that I should stay within 30 pounds of my current weight, we would probably not make a good match for marriage....because that's just not a promise I can make.

quote:

As I understand it a woman looks at a man and thinks more along the lines of, "with the right clothes and a hair cut he'd be pretty good. and if I can just get him to stop doing (insert habit of your choice here)"


Also not cool. Well the clothes part, as long as she doesn't try to make him do it all the time or as long as she understands that this isn't him so he isn't necessarily going to be comfortable...dressing him up and showing him off on occasion is probably not going to be horrible and allowing her to do that is just kindness on his part.

Habit changing...if the person's "good catch" status hinges on them stopping a habit throw them back. [sm=aside.gif] If you can't live with any existing habit for the next 40 years, say so BEFORE marriage. Then I think the man is free to decide rather or not he can or will make the effort required to change that habit OR say "hey, what you see is what you get sweetie".

Encuraging habits to better health is always a wise and loving thing to do and making an effort to do that is always good for all parties involved. But really, if continued full enjoyment of a spouse is based on physical conditions either not changing or changing sufficiently I think somebody got a raw deal. So, I guess I still think it's unreasonable even if we are just talking about appearances.



princessreba -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:55:32 AM)

As much as I've learned in my spiritual walk, when I'm offended God is talking to me! My expectation is to be towards Him alone
and my responsibility to others is to love them no matter what and if I can't, FOR ANY REASON, than that is a problem I need to
get right!



p31woman -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:57:30 AM)

quote:

But really, if continued full enjoyment of a spouse is based on physical conditions either not changing or changing sufficiently I think somebody got a raw deal. So, I guess I still think it's unreasonable even if we are just talking about appearances.


Amen. A husband doesn't "deserve" a thin wife any more than a wife "deserves" a husband who doesn't go bald.



Brenda-lee -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 12:42:51 PM)

John,

What a thought provoking thread…. Good job! [sm=thumbsup.gif]

To quote the OP:
quote:

So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?

Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?


The thought that arouses my thinking to this kind of question, is are/or were you ever truly (1Cor13) loving one another to begin with?

I have soooo identified with each persons thought processes. Great post’s btw ladies!

We should work at loving the person of the heart and becoming the person that God desires us to be…. KWIM?

I too have been married and it would not have mattered one iota if I had the best body – or long hair….or other things that would get me tossed from here for violation of TOS….ya know?

If we are not loving our spouse as God has called us to, we most definitely can not expect them to change when we have truly no power in and of ourselves to change for the better outside of the refining of God. He is the author and prefector of our faith.

Like others have said: In life we are always in the process of change. Look around you – our seasons even change…. If your not loving that person for who they are now – chances are you fell in love with what you wanted someone to be…. Not who they truly were or who you expect them to one day be…..

Sounds slightly co-dependant eh? Please do not take that the wrong way.....



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 12:48:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grace-N-Mercy
If I were to gain weight after becoming married, I'd probably feel bad for my husband, and so would try to take the weight off. And not just for him, but because it's healther. One particularly stressful year, I put on about 30 pounds and was able to take it off in about 6 months.


Michele gained about 30 lbs almost instantly and I was too new at this to help her maintain her weight so she saw it as no big deal. But it was. At her heaviest she was about 100 lbs over her marriage weight (which was 20 lbs over our dating weight). Of course some of that was due to medical reasons but by the time we had gotten to that point I had long ago forfeited any right to complain (since I hadn't gently corrected her earlier and helped her to get in shpae it would have been too crushing at this point to deal with it.). I did of course try to get us both walking etc but it was a long slow road back that we never had the chance to really start on.


quote:

As for the hair, I recently donated 10" to Locks of Love. My hair was the longest it had ever been, but my boyfriend at the time rarely said anything about my hair. Still, I put off the decision to have it cut. So, after we broke up, I finally had it cut. It's a short bob and I LOVE it - so much easier to take care of. Still, if my husband (or even fiance) wanted me to have long hair, I would have it long again.


This is the only instance where I would agree to my wife cutting her hair short, as long as she grew it back long again. (assuming she was long when we married)



mmartiandt -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 12:57:39 PM)

You know, this long hair thing keeps coming up, and as a short haired person who can't have long hair because it is sooooo baby fine that it looks extremely thin and scraggly long, it doesn't give much encouragement for the future, and possibly explains why I have never been asked out by anyone. I know this is probably not the thread to mention this, but it made me think of it. Now, to answer the OP.

I think I concur with lynnmoon's assessment. If I were wanting to change X, Y, or Z about someone in order to continue to love them, then my idea of love is off, and needs an adjustment before I attempt to put anyone through that.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 12:57:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
Too restrictive I think. I mean...keep long hair for years and years? I don't know, why wouldn't you want your spouse to have a little variety in thier head if they wanted it. I mean, I can appreciate someone liking long hair and I can understand the other person wearing it long because hubby likes it. But to actually expect that she won't change her hair?


I always figured that I'm the one who looks at it so why wouldn't she wear it how I like (within reason of course). Why is that unreasonable? IS it really that important to a woman to change her hairstyle?

(This may be one of those male/female things. I've had the same hairstyle since highschool and I see no reason to change it. )

quote:

And weight...well, I dunno. It sounds reasonable ..... If he is honest and indicates that he does expect that I should stay within 30 pounds of my current weight, we would probably not make a good match for marriage....because that's just not a promise I can make.


But would you work at staying the weight you are (or getting in shape). I know plenty of thinner women who are in their 40's 50's 60's. But even with the inevitable weight gain of age, shouldn't we work to stay as fit as we can for our spouses?



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:00:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mmartiandt

You know, this long hair thing keeps coming up, and as a short haired person who can't have long hair because it is sooooo baby fine that it looks extremely thin and scraggly long, it doesn't give much encouragement for the future, and possibly explains why I have never been asked out by anyone. I know this is probably not the thread to mention this, but it made me think of it. Now, to answer the OP.


I prefer long hair. I have friends who won't even look at a woman with long hair. (they like it about your length from your picture) For you, take the OP this way. If your husband married you with short hair he'd probably expect you to keep it short. Every woman looks attractive to some man and every man is attracted to some woman.



p31woman -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:04:01 PM)

quote:

I always figured that I'm the one who looks at it so why wouldn't she wear it how I like (within reason of course). Why is that unreasonable?


You're the one who looks at it?! Are we talking about a living, breathing, human wife or some decorative object to hang on the wall? [&:]

quote:

But even with the inevitable weight gain of age, shouldn't we work to stay as fit as we can for our spouses?


Fit... or visually appealing? The former, yes we should. The latter, not so much.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:10:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: p31woman
Amen. A husband doesn't "deserve" a thin wife any more than a wife "deserves" a husband who doesn't go bald.


But isn't it reasonable that if he marries you as thin he'd want you to remain that way (within reason)? If not, why not?

One thing that arises many times in conversations with other men is the 'false advertising' angle. We marry a thin women with long hair and end up with a not so thin woman with short hair (or vice versa). It seems like we've been sold a bill of goods. Now this doesn't say that we don't continue loving our wives. Physical attractiveness at that point normally has nothing to do with the decision to love her. (although it does affect our sex lives). We've already decided we are going to love her. But we sure would like it if she grew her hair back and lost some weight.

Men marry move-in-able in most cases. We know that there will be some age related changes. Can't stop time. But isn't it reasonable to expect that she'll work to remain looking close to how she did when we married?

Likewise isn't it reasonable to expect that the man would try to look as his wife wanted him to look?

A lot of the posts in the thread so far seem to have the gist of "well my body's going to go to pot anyway so you may as well get used to the idea" Am I reading things wrong?



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:13:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: p31woman
You're the one who looks at it?! Are we talking about a living, breathing, human wife or some decorative object to hang on the wall? [&:]


You know what I mean. If I like long hair on my wife, because it is visually and tactilely appealing to me, and she had long hair when we married, why wouldn't she keep it that way?
quote:


quote:

But even with the inevitable weight gain of age, shouldn't we work to stay as fit as we can for our spouses?


Fit... or visually appealing? The former, yes we should. The latter, not so much. [/font]


Why not?



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:14:03 PM)

quote:

I always figured that I'm the one who looks at it so why wouldn't she wear it how I like (within reason of course). Why is that unreasonable? IS it really that important to a woman to change her hairstyle?


Because she is the one that has to wash it, style it, maintain it, get the tangles and stuff out. I don't know...for some people long hair can be a real pain in the behind (much like getting a perm for other people) and so I don't know why it wouldn't be acceptable enough to think hey, I think you look great with long hair but your the one who has to deal with it so do what you want to with it.

Oh, and let me also say (for the sake of perspective) I'm Black. Black hair and white hair are WORLDS apart, so maybe it's much easier for a white woman to deal with more hair. For me, the more hair I have the longer it takes to deal with and the more work AND MONEY it takes to make it look all nice and straight and white ladylike, lol. if I want straight hair, at it's longest, washing and straightening it it probably takes at min. 2 hours worth of work, very often 3. And that's even if I have a professional do it. So, when I think about hair there is a whole lot of work involved that your wife might not have had to do.

quote:

But would you work at staying the weight you are (or getting in shape). I know plenty of thinner women who are in their 40's 50's 60's. But even with the inevitable weight gain of age, shouldn't we work to stay as fit as we can for our spouses?


We should work to stay as fit as we can for our health. I can't go so far as to say for our spouse because, saying that, to me means that my husband is within his rights to base his attractiveness to me on the physical which could change without my will in some instances. I like men that like fat...and trust me, they are out there. [;)] Not that I want to be fat and unhealthy, but I do need to know that if I'm a little heavier than the norm he isn't going to be turned off. I do put a limit on that. I mean, if someone like doubles thier weight and has restricted movement, etc. because of it well....I would fully expect anyone to be a little grossed out by that. So unless you are talking about becoming morbidly obese, no I don't think one should NEED to be fit for thier spouse to appreciate thier bodies.

Words of a woman who kind of likes a healthy man....and by healthy I mean FAT!!!!!!![8D]



p31woman -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:17:46 PM)

quote:

But isn't it reasonable that if he marries you as thin he'd want you to remain that way (within reason)? If not, why not?


It *might* be a reasonable assumption that she'll stay thin IF she had always naturally been thin, her parents are thin, etc. But even then, stuff happens, metabolisms change, for male and female alike.

I'm bowing out now. Best for me to leave this topic alone.



semperfidelis -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:27:34 PM)

People who are skinny:
1.) just haven't found anywhere or anyone that knows how to cook,
2.) they have a fast metabolism (moi), (applies double if you're Mennonite until you get much older)
3.) don't eat properly (see #1)
4.) and/or exercise more than others
5.) ... insert 96 other reasons here that my male mind can't think of at the moment.

I think everyone here has some really good comments. I think much if it fits the "within reason". Part of being married is realizing that "our body is not our's, it is for someone else", and it is all "within reason". Moderation in everything. That's why I like being coming from the Mennonite background. We know how to eat, we know how to cook (most of us), and we know how to work hard enough to use it all.

With that said, if I knew something bugged someone and it was something frivolous I could/should/need to get rid of -- by all means I'll do it! What I want to do is live in a way to please God and in such a way that whatever things annoy her don't bother her because of how I live in other ways. In so doing, it will be less of a problem to get rid of those annoying things and/or they can become an inside joke that we work together to get rid of.

Part a definition of marriage is two people living, loving, and working together for the glory of God.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:31:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
Because she is the one that has to wash it, style it, maintain it, get the tangles and stuff out. I don't know...for some people long hair can be a real pain in the behind (much like getting a perm for other people) and so I don't know why it wouldn't be acceptable enough to think hey, I think you look great with long hair but your the one who has to deal with it so do what you want to with it.

Oh, and let me also say (for the sake of perspective) I'm Black. Black hair and white hair are WORLDS apart, so maybe it's much easier for a white woman to deal with more hair. For me, the more hair I have the longer it takes to deal with and the more work AND MONEY it takes to make it look all nice and straight and white ladylike, lol. if I want straight hair, at it's longest, washing and straightening it it probably takes at min. 2 hours worth of work, very often 3. And that's even if I have a professional do it. So, when I think about hair there is a whole lot of work involved that your wife might not have had to do.


Understand. This may be one of the few places where the races really are different. I, being white, spoke more along the lines of what I'd be attracted to in a white woman. Oddly enough of the black women that I've been attracted to I really can't remember how long their hair was. How odd. (This may be a question for a different thread but when you are talking do you just assume everyone is like you until the differences show up? I mean, I never think of race or racial differences in any way in a discussion until someone brings it up. Like here, I never considered other hair types. Is that normal or am I just insulated too much?[:D])


quote:


quote:

But would you work at staying the weight you are (or getting in shape). I know plenty of thinner women who are in their 40's 50's 60's. But even with the inevitable weight gain of age, shouldn't we work to stay as fit as we can for our spouses?


We should work to stay as fit as we can for our health. I can't go so far as to say for our spouse because, saying that, to me means that my husband is within his rights to base his attractiveness to me on the physical which could change without my will in some instances. I like men that like fat...and trust me, they are out there. [;)]


I have several uncles that prefer larger women. and then there is the country of Mauritania (I believe I have that right) where fat is beautiful and thin is disgusting. So much so that they intentionally fatten up their daughters. Different strokes for different folk I guess[:D]



Pax2y_all -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:34:28 PM)

Super Thread, John_O!

I honestly would work, with all my ability, to make Judy as happy as possible--maybe to the point of spoiling her, long before we tie the knot. I don't mean that I would ever demean myself to please her--that just isn't in my nature to begin with.

But in all the other things a couple shares; yes, I would continually go out of my way to please my wife. And since, we're talking here about spouses (or at least I am), why would my spouse, assuming we have known each other long enough to get past the infatuation stage, want to change anything about me?

The marriage is a joinning, a completing--it is bonding, not plastic surgery. I sought out Judy because she fills the empty part of my life--as only she can fill it, with what I needed Judy to freely offer me.

During the dating stage, and throughout the committed, couple stage, such things as outright deal-breakers, or things that you don't care too much about the other person's habits (not character)--those should be openly spoken about in an assertive, not aggressive manner.

Deal with them entirely, or compromise about them, if they aren't deal-breakers. Set joint expectations for behaviors, and fully explain what you need, to feel loved by, and for, the other.

For example, I smoke cigarettes, not many, but a few a day. Judy knows this. She has made no point to me that I must give up the cigarettes before she will become anymore seriously involved with me.

Had she assertively done so, by telling me, "I need for you to quit. I don't like them around me, nor do I want you to smoke in front of my children," she would be telling me I must quit before we go any further in our relationship. Indeed, she would be assertively telling me that she needs to know I'll be strong enough, around long enough, for the super expenditure required from her to spend the rest of our lives together.

Here are three choices I could make:

(1) give up the four or five I smoke a day, because she is worth more than four or five weeds.

(2) refuse to quit at all. Tell her she has to adapt to my habit (that would be aggressive behavior on my part) I refuse to discuss this! (I will not yield or compromise; you accept it or lose me).

(3) lie, tell her that I have quit--and until she's here, how's she going to know, anyway. We won't be joned at the hip in LV either. No doubt, with the few cigarettes I do smoke, I could work them around my Judy time.

#2 and # 3 are, in order, aggressive behavior (you must--or you lose); and lying outright, actual passive aggression. She cannot see me or tell I am lying, so she doesn't know, anyway. Either way, to continue any behavior that causes, or feeds Judy's fears, is not a positive way to gain her trust, and in no way makes me respect her, as a person, should I get away with behavior that offends her.

An assertive discussion of all life's checks and balances, are essential to the completion of a couple, prior to marriage. Believe me, the union of your spirits, happens long before the pretty words are spoken over you.

In all areas of human intercourse between couples, honesty, the need to please, and reassure your spouse, should be your first human duty to him or her, after making certain they are right with the Redeemer.

I've read posts where women asked, "Would you that (sexual) thing with your husband to please him?" You might, but at what cost to you? Anytime either partner is demeaned during a sex act between a married couple, the act is, of its self, sinful.

Why? Because you have both promised each other that you would never knowingly harm the other; and you vowed before God to love, honor and cherish each other. When you get to the marriage bed, no one should be going there as a victim. In addition, if this is a second marriage, only the two of you should be entering into the marriage bed, in the first place.

The Lord has provided you both with all the equipment necessary for a fulfilling, daily life together, including all the necessary parts for a satisfying sex life. The problem most couples I speak with face, is the loss of sexual interest. And, for most of them, it is due to external forces acting upon them, or former sexual experiences being taken into the marriage bed. Sexually, you should both be more interested in pleasing your partner, than pleasing yourself. That approach will usually bring about just the right blend of enthusiasm, from your partner, an enthusiasm you might have thought had vanished.

To sum up, I fully intend to do whatever pleases Judy, that doesn't take away my self esteem, or lower my self worth. Moreover, I will not allow her to do such things, to be demeaned by my petty desires. After all, Judy has voluntarily placed a Welcome Mat at the door to her life. She has not agreed to become my doormat. Nor has Judy ever agreed to be my victim, either. We have got a long way to go--to get to our marriage bed, anyway. Therefore, we have an equally long way to go to work out the kinks of couples' living.

Blessings,
Frank



momfree -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:43:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

You know what I mean. If I like long hair on my wife, because it is visually and tactilely appealing to me, and she had long hair when we married, why wouldn't she keep it that way?


Oh, I don't know...maybe because it's HER hair?

As a woman with long hair who has had long/short/in between it's been MY decision how I want my hair. And quite frankly, I get a knot in my stomach when I hear women say...oh I have to check w/my husband before I do anything to my hair...or he'll kill me if I cut it off...or he tells me to keep it long, do this, do that, etc. YUCK

A woman's hair is her glory. It's more beautiful and stylish then mens. We have the opportunity to play with it, adorn it, style it, cut it, grow it out. It is ENTIRELY ours and I think it's extremely selfish of a man to think he should have ANY say with what his wife does with her hair just so it's pleasing to him...you have to look at her? Does she not have to pleased w/her own hair? Or she should keep it a way she doesn't like to make you happy and be unhappy w/her apearance? Who styles it? Who washes, cares, brushes it? Who's HAIR is it?

Don't now why this hit a nerve, maybe because I'm grateful and love my hair even if it looks bad lol..but it's my hair and I would never date or marry a man that thought he had a say in how my hair should look.



semperfidelis -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 1:51:34 PM)

quote:

A woman's hair is her glory. It's more beautiful and stylish then mens. We have the opportunity to play with it, adorn it, style it, cut it, grow it out.

Sounds like the "My husband has an antique truck" thread in "He Says".


quote:

Oh, I don't know...maybe because it's HER hair? .... It is ENTIRELY ours and I think it's extremely selfish of a man to think he should have ANY say with what his wife does with her hair just so it's pleasing to him...you have to look at her? Does she not have to pleased w/her own hair? Or she should keep it a way she doesn't like to make you happy and be unhappy w/her apearance? Who styles it? Who washes, cares, brushes it? Who's HAIR is it?

Biblically [;)], none of that hair is her's. However, none of the man's body is his. Not his hair, his physique, et cetera. Anyone holding on to anything in this world will be asked to give it up, and refusing that -- someday we may not have a choice. Life and life with God has a way of doing that. So why not give up what we cannot keep?

I feel bad for women whose husbands ask them to look take care of their appearance, but the husband just "lets himself go". I know a couple like that, and it is entirely unfair. He knows the truth and does nothing. As a result, there are consequences. Respect, obedience, and submission is a two-way street. The best marriages know how to navigate that together.



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