RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/4/2008 10:55:14 AM
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Taffy_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
In the end, though, is it really that much of a sacrifice to try to please your spouse physically? I've never been married, but I imagine that it would be an honor to make my husband happy in this way.
Excellent post shema.
I'll second that!
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/4/2008 12:06:25 PM
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trainfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
In the end, though, is it really that much of a sacrifice to try to please your spouse physically? I've never been married, but I imagine that it would be an honor to make my husband happy in this way.
Excellent post shema.
I'll second that!
Ditto!
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/5/2008 1:57:09 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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NiceGuy,
This is one of the most beautiful posts I've ever read!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: NiceGuy
***Incoming Message from the Big Giant Head ***
While reading Denise's post, this particular passage came to mind:
quote:
2 Samuel 23:13-17 (NIV)
13 During harvest time, three of the thirty chief men came down to David at the cave of Adullam, while a band of Philistines was encamped in the Valley of Rephaim. 14 At that time David was in the stronghold, and the Philistine garrison was at Bethlehem. 15 David longed for water and said, "Oh, that someone would get me a drink of water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem!" 16 So the three mighty men broke through the Philistine lines, drew water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem and carried it back to David. But he refused to drink it; instead, he poured it out before the LORD. 17 "Far be it from me, O LORD, to do this!" he said. "Is it not the blood of men who went at the risk of their lives?" And David would not drink it.
What David's mighty men did was insane admirable, but the most interesting part of the story is what David did with the water when he realized the depth of what he had asked them to do. I think the lesson of the above passage is this:
Be mindful of what you ask of those who love/trust/respect you. While the request for a wife to maintain long/short hair (or whatever else) may seem trivial on the surface, it may very well be a breaking-through-the-Philistine-lines sort of big deal to her. This could be for reasons that she may not even be able to express or possibly is embarassed to express. Because she loves you and wants to please you, it places an unfair burden on her, especially if you make a point of letting her know that you much prefer for her to look/weigh just so.
So, to give the question a different twist, how hard would you work at making sure that you never find yourself in the position David found himself in with his mighty men, pouring out the "drink offering" that your spouse has brought you?
NiceGuy 
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/7/2008 10:49:22 AM
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elastic
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quote:
you know your mate wants you to be someway (for a lady that would normally be just like you were on your wedding day) how hard would you work to be that.
for a woman, (usually) her wedding day is the day she looks her best. During our dating relationship I didn't look the way I looked on my wedding day. My hair was a different color, a different style, I wore false finger nails, my make up was done by a professional, etc, etc, etc....the maintenance that went into my wedding day does not go into my day to day life. i haven't looked the same as i looked on my wedding day, well, since my wedding day.
My wedding day was a special day captured by cameras and attended by friends...in a way, it is a special memory that is never going to be relived again...my day to day life is just between us as man and wife. we don't wax nostalgic for the way things were on that day because we have both grown and changed (for the better)...the things that were important to us on our wedding day are not as important to us now....the goals we had for each other on our wedding day have been met and we are on to new and more important goals....the dreams we had then are not the dreams we have now, as those dreams were fulfilled.....we can't go back to the way we were on that day, so why should we both look the same way we looked on that day?
i'm a little fatter, he's a little balder, my hair's a little redder, his belt's a little tighter , but we have changed together and have managed to love each other more and more despite any changes.
_____________________________
May be able to imitate a human today.
Need more coffee to pull it off.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/7/2008 11:06:08 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
the things that were important to us on our wedding day are not as important to us now....the goals we had for each other on our wedding day have been met and we are on to new and more important goals....the dreams we had then are not the dreams we have now, as those dreams were fulfilled.....we can't go back to the way we were on that day, so why should we both look the same way we looked on that day?
i'm a little fatter, he's a little balder, my hair's a little redder, his belt's a little tighter , but we have changed together and have managed to love each other more and more despite any changes.
That is beautiful, and just the way I remember it being with my husband after 18 years of marriage. Somethings just didn't matter any more, and more important things became the focus of our relationship than how either one of us looked. Heck, for us, looks wasn't a huge deal anyway, though it was certainly a nice side benefit.
I'm sorry for those for whom this is/was not true...feeling cheated because your spouse changes physically after marriage must be very hard on the marriage. Maybe reality checks are in order...everybody changes as they get older, and usually that begins with weight gain.
besiderself
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/7/2008 1:38:15 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
quote:
you know your mate wants you to be someway (for a lady that would normally be just like you were on your wedding day) how hard would you work to be that.
i haven't looked the same as i looked on my wedding day, well, since my wedding day.
You probably looked about the same for the next several months after your wedding day. Unless of course you had your hair cut on your honeymoon or something. Clothes don't make the woman, nor does makeup etc. He didn't choose to love you on your wedding day. That choice was made before then. But on your wedding day you were still exactly what he wanted so I use the wedding day as the milestone. So under the make up and fancy hair do and expensive dress was the exact woman woman he wanted.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/7/2008 2:21:05 PM
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Enoch195
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I think it is important that in any relationship, there needs to an acceptance of each other. Expecting someone to change or to change to someone's standards is not a good thing IMO. It should be God who lives in us who is changing us and molding us to be like Him.
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Don't be sappy.. be happy.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/30/2008 2:36:59 PM
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itsnotwhatuthink
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If I thought my husband wanted a WHAT, I would find him one. How about WHO a person is?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/30/2008 3:58:09 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whitepine
If I thought my husband wanted a WHAT, I would find him one. How about WHO a person is?
Excellent question WP. But I think you are misunderstanding the title question. Read some more of the thread.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/2/2009 8:11:09 AM
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John_O
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I've had some people ask about this thread and have had discussions brushing on the topics discussed here, so I thought I'd bump it up for their perusal.
For those who have not read the thread yet, PLEASE read the first posts.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/2/2009 11:43:47 AM
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Psalm_40
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I was just thinking about how everything in our culture, from TV, magazines, internet, etc....bombards us daily with things we could do to please our partner, but it seems that those are mostly directed at men and women that are not married. Isnt' it funny? We see one advertisement after another about what clothes to wear, perfume to wear, even antiperspirant to put on, lol, to make us desireable to please our partners...but the audience seems to be unmarried people. And the married people receives different message. The message for married people is not about trying to be pleasing to our spouse, but to make sure we assert our independence, and never let a man rule us. Or unless a man is a bumbling idiot (as often the case in most TV shows) who is willing to say "yes dear", then he is not a good husband...that he is a controlling husband. Do you guys see that???
Anyway, this was the topic of discussion I had with a couple of girlfriends on Saturday. Two of us are committed Christians and one is a church goer. All of us have been established in our careers and had been fairly indepedent. Only one is successful at being married.
Anyway, the conversation was what would we change for our husbands, if we can do it again. Two of them would never give up their careers, where as I would be more than happy to be a stay at home wife...which to them sounded shockign, since they've never known me to be the type, according to their perception of me. The non Christian would rather be divorced than give up her career. The other can't even imagine not having any income. For me, it's a non issue now as I won't be raising little children anymore, so for a husband to change me with respect to that would sound unreasonable, unless he sees I have certain gifts and talents that can be used in the ministry. Then, a money making job wouldn't be so hard to give up.
Other thing we talked about was being a home maker, duties at home, being submissive in and out of the bedroom, about making ourselves attractive to our spouse, having a "oneness" in everything including finances. I think the more I allow God to show me His purpose for marriage, and the roles He's given both the husbands and the wives, the easier it is for me to accept submission...to a godly man who's life is under submission to God. It's becoming easier for me to accept that being a wife would also include doing things to please my husband, as long as he's not asking me to change the real essence of who I am...the way God made me to be. Like, if a man asked me to be an extra extrovert person, well, that's just not going to happen, because I'm not born that way. I would be willing to be a bit more outgoign and friendlier, but by nature and design, God didn't make me that way. It'll suffocate me.
If my husband comes home with a bag of perfume and lingerie for me that I wouldn't normally wear, I'd have no problem putting them on for him. Or if he observes that I'm I've allowed myself to gain 50 lbs, if he decides that it's time for me to confront whatever it is that's making me develop a habit, or whatever health issue I have that's contributing to my weight gain, I wouldn't object to it. But I have to say that it goes both ways. That as a wife who's designed to help the husband, he should be open to my input on his life, and granted that I'm walking with God in wisdom and love, there comes a time that as a wife, I'll have to put my foot down and stop him from destroying himself and our marriage.
That one friend I mentioned above..the Christian one....spent 10 years with a spouse who was a compulsive gambler. He literally gambled their finances away. She is a highly intelligent, career driven woman, type A personality, and fiercely independent. She accepted that she has no right to tell him what to do, and he has no right to tell her what to do. So, while he was gambling, she was in church...as an escape to her problems. Their house was a total mess (honestly, I almost puke when I get to their house....like it was extremely messy with no place to move). She hardly cleaned, hardly cooked, never looked after herself (until now that she's divorced, she decided to dress up more and lose weight). Neither one spoke to each other about their needs and desires from each other...and if one did, neither listened to each other because they were adamant in their belief that a spouse should never change each other, and never change for each other. And look where it got them. I think if the wife who is a believer had decided to follow God's intructions of her role as a wife, perhaps, things could have been different. Who knows.
I do believe that in a healthy marriage, each spouse should be willing to accomodate each other's desires...perhaps not right away but at least try to get their hearts to the point where they can accomodate each other joyfully.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/2/2009 4:28:37 PM
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John_O
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OK Reba. Lets start with basics.
The premise is that men marry "ready to move in" and for the most part want their wives to stay as they were at the wedding time. and that women marry "fixer-uppers" and want to mold their mates into the man they should be.
(I agree with the first point. When I marry I will probably want her to stay about that way. I can't really speak for the ladies)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebakahblam
In relationships it's important to realize people will change and the ability to accept the good and guard against the bad is key.
If they wanted you to stay the same, how hard would you work at it?
quote:
I want to do some more thinking on this but my initial reaction is: It depends on motivation. Is his motivation for wanting to change me so that I become more like Christ or is his motivation for my changing so that I become more like the person he wants instead of the person I am truly meant to be?
Good point. Some changes are good, others are not so good.
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Yes, I desire to please my spouse and I am willing to try changing things (for instance, if he would like to see me with long hair maybe I'd grow mine out -har har har!  )
A woman after my own heart!
Now if he desired that you keep it short, would you do that?
quote:
I think spouses need to realize some things aren't changeable (I'm speaking mostly physical here). It's one thing if after we have children I've let myself "go" and he suggests I start getting back to the gym. Maybe he mentions he doesn't like how wobbly my wobbly bits have become and if he's willing to work with me then yes I'm okay being changed. His concern is my health and I am to yield to him as my body is not my own--- but he needs to realize I can't change my bone structure. If he's expecting me to somehow transform into a size 2 - well I've got news for him - you can't lose bone darlin'. That'd be akin to me marrying a short man and then expecting him to all of a sudden grow a foot taller - not realistic and certainly not very accepting.
Agreed.
quote:
but there are some things I've accepted I will not accept - I think it more loving to not accept someone's unchangeable aspects than to try to put conditions on loving them.
Great point!
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/2/2009 4:41:08 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Do you guys see that???
Excellent point. And you are correct
quote:
Anyway, the conversation was what would we change for our husbands, if we can do it again. Two of them would never give up their careers, where as I would be more than happy to be a stay at home wife...which to them sounded shockign, since they've never known me to be the type, according to their perception of me. The non Christian would rather be divorced than give up her career. The other can't even imagine not having any income. For me, it's a non issue now as I won't be raising little children anymore, so for a husband to change me with respect to that would sound unreasonable, unless he sees I have certain gifts and talents that can be used in the ministry. Then, a money making job wouldn't be so hard to give up.
Way back when, and in lots of households around me, the SAHW has it made. She has the whole day to do those things she excels at without having to fight the rat race. M's mom is a SAHW and loves it. I desire my future wife to have the ability to be a SAHW if she so desires. (Hopefully she will)
quote:
Other thing we talked about was being a home maker, duties at home, being submissive in and out of the bedroom, about making ourselves attractive to our spouse, having a "oneness" in everything including finances. I think the more I allow God to show me His purpose for marriage, and the roles He's given both the husbands and the wives, the easier it is for me to accept submission...to a godly man who's life is under submission to God. It's becoming easier for me to accept that being a wife would also include doing things to please my husband, as long as he's not asking me to change the real essence of who I am...the way God made me to be.
Excellent. (ask joy2give2u about her paper)
quote:
But I have to say that it goes both ways. That as a wife who's designed to help the husband, he should be open to my input on his life, and granted that I'm walking with God in wisdom and love, there comes a time that as a wife, I'll have to put my foot down and stop him from destroying himself and our marriage.
In this somewhat contentious thread that is the point that so many are missing. Some have seen any request from their husband to be a certain way as manipulation or controlling, but they don't see that it is indeed a two way street. My wife's body belongs to me. And my body belongs to her. We are each others.
quote:
I think if the wife who is a believer had decided to follow God's intructions of her role as a wife, perhaps, things could have been different. Who knows.
That is truly sad.  They could have had a good life together if they had talked to each other.
quote:
I do believe that in a healthy marriage, each spouse should be willing to accomodate each other's desires...perhaps not right away but at least try to get their hearts to the point where they can accomodate each other joyfully.
Agreed.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/16/2009 11:23:05 PM
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John_O
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There was a point made in the He Says forum that blends in well here.
By now everyone knows that I greatly prefer long hair. The question was asked "How much notice would you (the men) need for your wife to cut her hair"
Excellent question. I'm a firm believer that before I do anything to my body I should get my wife's OK and vice versa. After all, I am hers and she is mine.
So, if you knew your husband preferred long hair (for example) and you wanted to cut it, how would you go about it?
I think that you'd need to give him plenty of notice to get used to the idea.
What do you think?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/17/2009 11:03:52 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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I couldn't give him notice because I don't give myself notice.
I would tell him after I made the appointment (which is usually a few weeks out) so he'd have that long to get used to the idea.
_____________________________
My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy rains
Unending love, Amazing grace
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 4/17/2009 11:40:28 AM
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Psalm_40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
There was a point made in the He Says forum that blends in well here.
By now everyone knows that I greatly prefer long hair. The question was asked "How much notice would you (the men) need for your wife to cut her hair"
Excellent question. I'm a firm believer that before I do anything to my body I should get my wife's OK and vice versa. After all, I am hers and she is mine.
So, if you knew your husband preferred long hair (for example) and you wanted to cut it, how would you go about it?
I think that you'd need to give him plenty of notice to get used to the idea.
What do you think?
I think that in a healthy relationship, husbands and wives should be able to talk about everything……even hairstyle, lol. Each one should be seeking to please each other within that relationship. In your example, if the wife knew that her husband likes her long hair and they’ve had discussions about it before, and she went ahead and cut it without considering his feelings and discussing it with him, then there’s probably something going on beyond hair. It’s almost a sign of defiant or rebellion—almost telling the man that his opinions don’t matter because she’s an independent woman. The same for a man if the situation is reversed only that the difference is that a man’s look isn’t as important to a woman. But take a different scenario. Let’s say that a woman prefers her husband to call her if he’s going to stay out late with his office work mate and he decides one day that he doesn’t need to call her, then I think the woman would have a reason to be upset because he didn’t think about her needs first and just focused on his needs, his independence. Wouldn’t you think?
For me, if my husband prefers my hair long and I decide that it’s very difficult to maintain it, I’d definitely discuss it with him first until we can come up with the right hairstyle that would both satisfy us or until we both understand each other. I also believe that a husband who loves his wife or vice versa would take his wife’s/her husband’s feelings into consideration (her/his desire to please him but also her/his desire to make to make changes to her body) and not just demand. It really does boil down to how each one considers each other’s needs first.
This is just sidebar and mostly just a commentary.
You know, I believe that the devil always has a way of destroying what God intended to be good. Marriage was supposed to be good. It was supposed to be a place where a man and a woman can be completely “naked’” with each other and not have shame. But the devil distorted this by promoting independence from each other. Remember when Eve was deceived. She didn’t discuss it with Adam first. She just went ahead and did it. There was no argument, no discussion as to what would happen to them and their relationship. And to this day, if a wife feels she needs to discuss issues and get her husband’s input on things that are seemingly immaterial, your relationship will have the co-dependence label attached to it and she’ll be advised to get into counselling. 
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Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 12:28:27 PM
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Focusing
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To me, there are far more important things to worry about that the length of one's hair.
Respect and consideration of one's spouse is very important, I highly doubt anyone posting here would disagree with that ... however, when one's spouse becomes insistent upon something that is, imo, so minor ... something that is not unusual or unreasonable for the other spouse to change from time to time (long hair/short hair, beard/clean-shaven) ... this is a foothold that satan uses to take our focus off the more important things, things that hold true value in life.
A spouse that nags over something that the other doesn't feel holds significant value is not fun to live with ... we're all familiar with the Scriptures on that ... and will drive a wedge into a relationship.
To each his or her own, and we all have preferences, but for me ... I could not be in a relationship with anyone who felt the need to be so insistent upon such a minor issue.
JMHO
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. . . when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 12:34:38 PM
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Tinkerbell_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_Foreigner
To me, there are far more important things to worry about that the length of one's hair.
Respect and consideration of one's spouse is very important, I highly doubt anyone posting here would disagree with that ... however, when one's spouse becomes insistent upon something that is, imo, so minor ... something that is not unusual or unreasonable for the other spouse to change from time to time (long hair/short hair, beard/clean-shaven) ... this is a foothold that satan uses to take our focus off the more important things, things that hold true value in life.
A spouse that nags over something that the other doesn't feel holds significant value is not fun to live with ... we're all familiar with the Scriptures on that ... and will drive a wedge into a relationship.
To each his or her own, and we all have preferences, but for me ... I could not be in a relationship with anyone who felt the need to be so insistent upon such a minor issue.
JMHO
_____________________________
My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy rains
Unending love, Amazing grace
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 12:51:29 PM
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Psalm_40
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For me it’s not really all about hair, but it’s more about respecting and loving my husband enough to consider that his opinions matter and are important, that his needs are important, that more than anything, that I will listen…even about things that I consider trivial. And I hope that I marry someone who feels the same.
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 1:23:56 PM
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BugLady
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Honestly... someone overly concerned with having their spouse maintain a particular appearance to suit their preference, probably has serious control issues.
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 1:40:35 PM
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actorguy282
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Just my input here,And I am speaking from only my experience.I tried so hard to be what A wanted me too be for her I lost touch with what makes me who I am and as a result I think that and her control issues doomed our relationship.Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to please our spouse,I'ts just that we shouldnt lose our essential self to do it.
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 2:05:52 PM
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Focusing
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actorguy, you bring up an excellent point, and when I see the questionquote:
How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? I read this as saying "Are we willing to give up we are, the person who attracted our spouse, to become a different person to suit their needs?" I have seen this backfire many times.
It's vital to remember who we are ... children of God ... above all else. Everything else is just trivial.
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. . . when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?
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RE: Why is hair so important? - 4/17/2009 2:11:50 PM
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tlims
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_Foreigner
actorguy, you bring up an excellent point, and when I see the questionquote:
How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? I read this as saying "Are we willing to give up we are, the person who attracted our spouse, to become a different person to suit their needs?" I have seen this backfire many times.
It's vital to remember who we are ... children of God ... above all else. Everything else is just trivial.
Good response....
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...not to mention the great tan i had when we got back to nyc...the southern sun is a killer.
